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Old 16-08-2016   #31
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Bit rough having to take the engine out to change the spark plugs, or employing a child to do it.

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Old 18-08-2016   #32
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Quote Originally Posted by pandamaniac View Post
Bit rough having to take the engine out to change the spark plugs, or employing a child to do it.

Dave
Do you think the engine would last that long?
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Old 18-08-2016   #33
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

The engine getting a overhaul already.
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Old 02-07-2017   #34
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Quote Originally Posted by blu73 View Post
i wouldn't worry too much about the electric side of things tbh, it would only be hard if you really really wanted to use the factory ecu cause it will be canbus and throw a wobbly if all the different body ecus aren't connected and will need fly-by-wire pedal. Sure there is plenty of aftermarket ecus that could run the engine, and to run an engine, even a modern injected one, you don't really need that many wires. Would need to get a throttle body with a cable fit but that could be done with just an adaptor plate..
I still have not been in a car with a twin-air so i don't really have a strong opinion on whether this is a good or a bad idea.. I still really want to drop panda cross 1.3mjet in a classic 4x4 myself - maybe one day.
Here in the Netherland there is also a "NON" turbo TwinAir engine available, it would probably make things a lot easier te install without the Turbo.
But on the other hand a lot less fun to drive.
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Old 03-07-2017   #35
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Mmmm, I don't think it would make it much harder - turbos are not as complicated as people like to think, so long as the original turbo and manifolds etc were used it wouldn't cost much and at the end of the day you likely going to end up with aftermarket engine management as i said before so that will need tuning which would cost the same as a turbo or NA motor.
Side note: i never knew there was a na twin-air!! What are the specs on these, how much power do they make etc?
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Old 03-07-2017   #36
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

The N/A Twinair makes about the same power and torque as a P60 but makes it much higher up in the range so needs to be rung out even more.
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Old 06-07-2017   #37
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

food for thought -
project TA engine - circa 5

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-500-t...8AAOSwz71ZW4fr

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Old 06-07-2017   #38
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Quote Originally Posted by blu73 View Post
Mmmm, I don't think it would make it much harder - turbos are not as complicated as people like to think, so long as the original turbo and manifolds etc were used it wouldn't cost much and at the end of the day you likely going to end up with aftermarket engine management as i said before so that will need tuning which would cost the same as a turbo or NA motor.
Side note: i never knew there was a na twin-air!! What are the specs on these, how much power do they make etc?
The NA TwinAir has 964cc instead of the 875cc the Turbo has.
65 hp and 88 Nm torque, after a remap they would have 85 hp and 135 Nm torque.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #39
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Still no TwinAir 141A projects. ??
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #40
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Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Thinking about a 141 panda ,Alfa mito powered beast. 154HP
Turbo. It would have to full time 4 wheel drive though.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #41
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

I just happen to running around in a TA 500 at the moment, just like the car too much to break it!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #42
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Quote Originally Posted by The Pretender View Post
Still no TwinAir 141A projects. ??
Just give me a TwinAir donor car, a 141A Panda and 5k and I'll do it for you, retaining the factory ECU and fuelling and subsequent reliability. I'd like to do it for less, but can't justify the time out of work otherwise!

BTW, still rolling around in my 1.4 16v Panda every day since I made it. The most reliable car I've ever owned. I'd like to see more modern engines in 141A Pandas myself.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #43
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

I'd like to see a twinair fitted too. Hoping someone will ask me to do it one day, I reckon 5k would be a good price!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #44
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

Quote Originally Posted by lewey View Post
Just give me a TwinAir donor car, a 141A Panda and 5k and I'll do it for you, retaining the factory ECU and fuelling and subsequent reliability. I'd like to do it for less, but can't justify the time out of work otherwise!

BTW, still rolling around in my 1.4 16v Panda every day since I made it. The most reliable car I've ever owned. I'd like to see more modern engines in 141A Pandas myself.
Retaining the factory ECU. ??
How will you eliminate the CAN-bus issue. ??
Does the factory ECU work in a car without CAN-bus body-ECU.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #45
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Re: Any Twin Air 141A projects planned. ?

You just take the body and engine ECU over and wire them up like they were in the donor car. Use immobiliser system with key as intended. This requires reading and understanding the eLearn documents you can get from Internet easily enough (like FIATForum). You can then use the wiring diagrams to pair down the loom from the donor car. No amazing computer knowledge or tools required. However, I would recommend MultiECUScan or whatever they call it now so you can see what the engine ECU thinks is going on.

I did it in my Panda and my Uno T-Jet, so it can be done. It is time consuming and potentially unpredictable as you suggest, but the engine will start and run without a lot of stuff. Just because your seat belt sensor is bust, the ECU doesn't stop your car from running - that would be dangerous. I would agree however, that as time goes on, this sort of thing will become more difficult and maybe impossible or not worth it. For example, perhaps if the seat belt sensor is not there, the car limits the performance of the engine. Unlikely, but possible. I've found FIAT/Alfa stuff to be very permissive with huge "fault" lists.

I haven't kept up with cars built after 2012 as information is now behind a paywall on the whole. The more sensors that are added for driving aids, the worse the transfer would be, but it depends on how it affects the outcome, which is basically undocumented and unknown until you try it. Seems sensible to find donors with the oldest versions of engine setups you like.
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