General rally strata

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General rally strata

fiatman

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:) Hi I'm new to this site hope someone can help me with my project, a rally strata. The car is fitted with a standard 1301 engine with a four branch manifold and twin forties, I intend to fit the inlet manifold and fuel rail from a uno turbo along with a megasquirt ecu to run fuel injection and distributorless ignition, what I would like to know what is the best cam for this engine, would it be an advantage to fit a 1500 head what size valves should I use, who is the best person to port and gas flow Fiat heads, how much should I shave of the block, I intend this engine to put out as much HP as possible longevity is not an issue? any help appreciated or a point in the right direction. :confused:
 
Re: Maybe you mean Strada??

Maybe you mean Strada??

Do you need to stay with the 1300 for any reason (class limit etc)

A 1500 engine is a better option, as a higher static compression ratio is much easier to achieve withoput having to resort to special (read expensive) pistons.

Ive posted this article which I wrote in other places on the web, its more specific to an X19, but the idea is the same.
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X/19 or 128 engine build

A Regata 85S (Aust spec1986 leaded) is rated @ 84hp/87 lb ft. It runs a 32/34 DMTR carburettor with 22/24 venturis, probably a 10/54 54/10 camshaft, 4 into 2 into 1 large exhaust pipe, has the same valve sizes 36in/33ex and combustion chamber shape as a 1500 X19 (Aust spec). The Regata engine has small valve reliefs machined into the piston crown, giving it a static compression ratio (by calculation) of 9.8:1.

An X19 1500 (Aust spec 1980 leaded) uses a 32 DATRA carburettor with 22/22 venturis, a 10/54 54/10 camshaft, 36in/33ex valves, the same combustion chamber shape and volume but achieves only 9.2:1 compression due to the relatively large valve relief pockets cast into the piston crown, its output is quoted @ 80hp/87 lb. ft.

An X19 1500 (European spec 1979 leaded) uses a 34DATRA carburettor with 23/26 venturis, a 24/68 64/28 camshaft, 36in/33ex valves, the same pistons (large cast relief) the same combustion chamber shape and volume and quotes 85hp/87 lb. ft.

An X19 1300 (European spec 1976 leaded) quotes 75hp/74.5 lb. ft. with a 32 DATRA carburettor with 22/22 venturis, 24/68 64/28 camshaft, 36in/31.5ex valves, 9.2:1 compression by using pistons with small valve reliefs machined out of the piston crown which has the tiniest of domes, yet the combustion chamber shape and volume as the 1500 engines (Euro & Aust spec)

By comparison the std (Aust spec) 1300 claims 73hp/74.5 lb. ft. but with a different camshaft (12/52 52/12) and a 4 into 1 (ex USA) exhaust system. (Someone is fibbing!) All X19 figures are from genuine owners or workshop specification manuals printed by Fiat!

So what’s the point of all this you may ask? Well with a little math we can compare and calculate some compression ratios using a mix of standard components.

For a standard Aust spec 1500 X19 (1499cc) 86.4mm bore and 63.9mm stroke
Cylinder volume = Pi x ( R squared) x stroke
= 3.1428571 x (43.2 x 43.2) x 63.9
= 374.7943 cc per cylinder (swept volume)
Head gasket volume = 7.443cc (approx 1.5mm thick crushed) 1.65mm new ASTADUR type
Volume in head = 34cc (nominal)
Volume in valve reliefs = 4.25cc (cast relief-nominal)
Total @ BDC = 420.4773cc
Total @ TDC = 45.683cc
Compression ratio = 9.20:1

For a standard Regata 1500 85S (Aust spec)
Cylinder volume = 374.7943cc
Head gasket volume = 7.433 (same type of head gasket as X19 1500)
Volume in head = 34cc (nominal)
Volume of valve relief = 1cc (machined out otherwise flat topped piston)
Total @ BDC = 417.2273cc
Total @ TDC = 42.433cc
Compression ratio = 9.83:1

For a standard X19 1300 (86.0 bore x 55.5 stroke =1290cc)
Cylinder volume = 322.518cc
Head gasket volume = 4.757cc (0.8mm crushed 87 internal diameter)
Volume in head = 34cc (nominal)
Volume of valve relief = 0.55cc (machined valve relief less small dome)
Total @ BDC = 361.825cc
Total @ TDC = 39.307cc
Compression ratio = 9.20:1

So with 1300 type pistons in a 1500
Using a thin re-torque type head gasket (0.8mm crushed)
Bored to 87.0mm with standard stroke 63.9mm (1520cc)

Cylinder volume = 380.00 per cylinder
Head gasket volume = 4.757cc
Volume of reliefs = 0.55cc
Volume in head = 34.5cc (allowing for normalising volumes)
Total @ BDC = 419.807cc
Total @ TDC = 39.807cc
Compression ratio = 10.546:1

The crank could be offset ground on the big end journals to marginally increase the stroke to 64.0mm. This would raise the C/R to 10.65:1 and the displacement to 1522cc. This is done to ensure that the piston, when dwelling at TDC, is level with the block surface (promoting better quench) The block /head mating surface would then only need to be gently (0.05mm) surfaced to ensure square and surface finish integrity.

The combustion chamber could also be welded then re-machined. A small change (2.5cc) in the volume of the combustion chamber gives us 11.2:1 C/R. (With 87mm bore x 64mm stroke, 1300 pistons and a thin head gasket)

From this I hope you can see how important it is to normalise / equalise all the head volumes.

1500 X19 and Regata blocks are to my knowledge exactly alike, with the exception of one drilling and tapping for the installation of the oil pressure transducer for the scaled gauge. I don’t propose to drill and tap this as I recommend mechanical type capillary gauges for monitoring all engine functions. You will need Oil Temperature, Oil Pressure, Water Temperature and a voltmeter is a good idea. (Not an ammeter)

1500 and 1300 use different head securing hardware. 1500’s use 10 stretch type bolts, (M10 x1.25) together with an ASTADUR non-re-torque type head-gasket. These bolts should be discarded after 2 – 3 uses. My recommendation would be to change to 1300 type hardware. A 1300 SOHC uses 5 studs, nuts and washers and 5 bolts (M12 x1.25) Then I would use the (1300 X19 type) re-torque head gasket – several good brands are available.

Fiat SOHC engines generally don’t need line boring or bend crankshafts or con-rods. If the crank journals measure up O.K. it could be used as is, (with a good clean) or else they need to be reground under-size. The crank should always have its core-plugs removed to clean the internal passages. Replacing these plugs is fiddly but necessary, and for high speed applications, I would recommend the replacement of the cup type core-plugs with Allen head type grub screws, after suitably threading the crank. The crank could also be ‘wedged’ or 'knife edged' and mirror polished. It should be dowelled to a suitable flywheel and secured with 12.9 grade Allen head cap screws and the assembly should be balanced.

The con-rods should be crack-tested, then hand finished. They should then be re-sized at the big end, have new gudgeon pin bushes fitted and reamed/honed to the gudgeon pin. The assemblies should then be balanced (end for end) and finally shot peened. The con-rod bolts and nuts should also replaced.

Now all this is simply following good engineering practice. Replace stressed components of unknown history, check all others. Assembly line components/hardware that are known to fail in extreme service should be addressed immediately, or else you risk poverty. I don’t think any of this is going overboard, it is really only the basics if you want some reliability with your performance and visa-versa. We could go to the point of Nitriding/Tuftriding the crank/rods, but that would add possibly $1000 to the total for no horsepower increase.

The brand of pistons I prefer to use are Kolben Schmidt. (Mahle) These are made in Germany and are the best quality (off the shelf) I have yet found, and they are the lightest. I would also recommend the installation of gapless rings, these can give considerable performance improvements over conventional rings, but the bores need to be finished appropriately. Preferably a head plate that duplicates the stresses caused by the torque of the head hardware, would need to be manufactured.

With standard rings after run-in, generally I’ve been able to achieve 3 – 4% cylinder leakage using K/S or Mahle piston-ring sets. (Chrome top ring) After 2 seasons at Wanneroo (the local race track) with open carburettors (no air-cleaners) an engine usually sees 6 – 8% cylinder leakage. My research tells me that ‘gapless type moly faced rings’, with the right type of bore finish, will return 1 – 2 % after run – in and at worst 3 - 4% after 2 seasons! This directly relates to real horsepower and can’t be overlooked. It may not sound like much, but remember that only 1/3 of the heat energy developed by each cylinder is actually going to push the piston down. So if 8% of the cylinder pressure is leaking away, you are theoretically losing 24% of the recoverable flywheel horsepower from that cylinder!

Whilst on the piston area, the gudgeon pins should be taper bored internally to reduce their weight. Surprisingly you can make considerable weight savings and all this directly relates to con-rod and con-rod bolt stresses and also to crankshaft counter weighting, once again small gains but worthwhile.

The main caps and their hardware need little more than thorough cleaning and chasing of all threads, internal and external. Then correctly torqued and Loctited have always given trouble free service in 1300’s all the way up to 9000rpm.


End of part one.... the text is too long to fit in one post
 
Re: Maybe yomean Strada... part 2

The X19 sump is finned alloy and has a removable steel baffle plate. I would recommend the fabrication and installation of a windage/baffle plate. A new oil pump, and oil pump drive gear are recommended. I would also HEAVILY recommend the installation of an oil cooler, with an in line thermostat, and the pick-up, which comes from a sandwich block, mounted behind the oil filter. An ACCUSUMP would also be a consideration. Following these recommendations I feel that the oiling system would be adequate for mild competition use.

Engine bearings that are usually forgotten in SOHC and DOHC engines are for the Auxiliary Shaft.
These are full circle bearings that are supplied Ex-Fiat as a semi-finished bearing, meaning that you have to line-bore and ream up a blind hole. I sourced in Italy a company that makes these as a finished full circular bearing and have these available in standard and 10 thou under-size. These should be renewed, as excessive clearance here will adversely affect oil pressure everywhere else.

There are also the front/rear crankshaft seals and the cam/aux seals. I recommend using the best quality seals available. (Silicone or Viton) They do cost more but they handle higher temperatures and circumferential speeds than Neoprene rubber or Poly-acrylic rubber, which tend to go hard with age and temperature.

Finally on the bottom end are the flywheel, clutch assembly and the front crankshaft pulley. The brand of clutches I prefer is Fitchel and Sachs (F&S). The front pulley should be a 1300 type as it is lighter and is a slightly smaller diameter, which will slow the alternator/water-pump down. It should also be accurately indexed for TDC, BDC and for as many degrees in-between as possible.

Basic short-block preparation is certainly important for reliability and durability, but when you talk about improving the output of an engine, you primarily consider the path of the intake / exhaust gases as they dynamically cycle through the cylinder head. The Regata 1500 and X19 1500 heads are basically the same. To develop its potential in horsepower and torque this engine needs the benefit of separated inlet runners. The entire length of the inlet tract needs to be very smooth and have an even taper all the way to the back of the valve, so the cylinder head and manifold need to be considered as a single unit at this point.

Both DCNF and IDF type manifolds available. My preference would be for the DCNF type manifold, because of its much straighter ports, the IDF manifold tends to twist two of the ports quite badly. I also believe that downdraft configuration carburettors are preferable to side-drafts, for the increased torque and quicker throttle response offered by the down drafts. 40 DCNF carburettors use a maximum of 36mm venturis, which is the same size as our inlet valve!
Consistent with the improvements in the carburetion and the related increase in fuel demand, a suitable electric fuel pump will need to be mounted in the engine bay. It needs to have a capacity of at least 1.5 litres per minute. The pick-up in the tank should also be relocated to a lower position, a quality fuel filter with a replaceable/cleanable strainer is recommended, as is a fuel pressure regulator. The fuel pump position on the cylinder block will need a blanking plate. This can incorporate a fitting for additional engine breathing a point often overlooked in basic preparation.

Next to be considered are cylinder head modifications. I propose using standard sized valves. Larger valves would be nice but the additional cost of oversized valves, the valve seats and having them installed is not justified by the expected gains. Realistically more can be gained by reworking of the original valves and valves seats and match porting the cylinder head to the inlet/exhaust manifolds. 1300 and 1500 use the same valve seats/ throat sizes. The intake/exhaust valve seats can be throated out by several mm. Std throat size is only 30 - 30.2 mm intake and 26.75 - 26.95mm exhaust. Improvements can also be made to the back of the intake valve heads for flow. They should also be made as light as possible, as this has a measurable effect on the valve trains maximum RPM. Valve shim thickness should be kept to the minimum, as this also greatly influences weight. The valves can be seated very close to their periphery, effectively a bigger valve. There is plenty of scope for improvement in flow through the head, by hand finishing the intake / exhaust ports and the combustion chamber. I use German made TRW valves and valve spring sets

An improved camshaft is mandatory for real horsepower gains. A decision on which cam to use would have to be made before commencing work on the engine, as just about everything works around this component. The extent of the porting work, which carburettors are used, exhaust modifications and the final compression ratio, all need to be taken into consideration.

Hand in hand with the camshaft is a Vernier adjustable cam pulley, as it enables us to accurately phase the camshaft to the crankshaft. It’s essential to phase the cam / crank accurately.

Next to be considered is the exhaust system. If extractors are to be used, they will really need to be custom made and designed to suit the C/R, cam timing, inlet manifolding and expected rev range for optimum results. A suitable muffler of at least 2 ¼” I.D. will be necessary. I would also recommend wrapping of the extractor tubes with heat retaining wrap.

Finally, the ignition system, the standard points type ignition is not suitable for performance use. The Regata 85S uses a Marelli Plex 201 ignition system, with no vacuum advance, for the European market. It differs from the conventional point type, in that the coil trigger is provided by a four-pole reluctor (this is integral with the distributor shaft) which sweeps past a fixed stator pole. (this is mounted where you would expect the points to be) As the reluctor rotates and passes the stator, a magnetic pulse is created, breaking the coil primary circuit (low tension) via a transistorised electronic module thus generating the (high tension) voltage in the secondary winding.

This system has no electronic control over the timing of the spark but it does deliver the spark consistently and reliably. It works 100 % or not at all. The 2 components that fail, usually heat related, are the stator and lead, and the electronic control module. I feel this is the best system to use, providing 28 degrees of centrifugal advance, usually set @ 10 degrees BTDC, giving 38 – 40 degrees of total advance.

Ignition leads should be spiral wound stainless steel cored, as these minimise a phenomenon called Inductance. As an electrical pulse moves along a wire, it can induce a secondary (though considerably smaller) pulse in a second wire that is close by. This can cause cross firing leading to serious engine damage. The leads should always be separated from each other by at least 15mm, separators should be made by passing the leads through non-conductive plastic card.
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then there is always the 68mm stroke option, using a crank from another Fiat model....giving a 1600cc engine....

SteveC

PS if you need camshafts, I have a few, see my post in FS&W
 
:eek: sorry yes I do mean strada slip of the tongue, thanks for the info, I have to stay with the 1300 as the 1500 puts me into the 1600 class too expensive. To be more specific I want to raise the compression to 11:1 how much can I safely take of the top of the block. The bottom end has no rattles does not use any oil and has only covered 70,000 miles in the hands of an elderly gent who regularly serviced the car, so no immediate plans to strip the bottom end yet, I have a head with matched ports and manifolds which has seen some head work, the valves have had the three angle treatment and the head has been skimmed, I am not sure of the compression with this head yet, I have one more race this championship before I start to take the engine apart. I intend to fit a megasquirt ecu to run the injection set up from an uno turbo and with a coil pack and EDIS unit from a Ford I can run distributorless ignition, this will give me a fully mapable engine, bearing in mind it is a rally car and I will need torque as opposed to top end power what cam shaft would you recommend from your stock, and how big an advantage would your cam be over a standard 1500 cam. It is also important to remember I am running on a buget otherwise I would be running a 4wd vehicle.
 
Re: rally strada

How do you intend to raise the compression to 11:1???

The std compression ratio is a lowly 9.2:1, and the pistons are already at the top of the block, so unless you change the pistons, 9.2:1 (or there abouts) is about all you can achieve. You cant deck the block a sufficient amount or the pistons will be out of the top and hitting the cylinder head

Why do you want to use the intake from UnoT?

Biggest problem with it is that the runners come together at a common plenum, this is far from ideal for torque or horsepower....in a naturally aspirated engine to get max output you really need to have seperate runners all the way to atmosphere.

Also without raising the compression substantially, having a long duration camshaft will hurt performance, as you dynamic compression ratio will drop, due to the intake valve being open for more of the compression stroke.

SteveC
 
The idear of the uno turbo inlet manifold is that it comes complete with a fuel rail, other wise I have to get one made at great expense as I do not have any machining facilities. Yes I agree each cyclinder should have its own tract however the uno turbo mk1 puts out 105hp as standard and a chip upgrade can significantly increase that, if the uno turbo plenum chamber is capable of that kind of hp I will settle for that. I have now discovered that I can raise the compression ratio to 11.1 if I lose 40 thou from either the head or block. I spoke to a Fiat specialist in London a few years ago and he was of the opinion that you skim the block on these engines not the head ??? As far as the cam goes I will have to check for valve clearences before chosing, a longer duration cam as opposed to a higher lift may be the answer. I guess that the whole project will be a suck it and see affair, I posed the questions here in the hope someone have been down this road before and that the answers would be out there. In Ireland we ran and still do a Fiat challange series with unos and now Puntos, it was my understanding that they ran the 1301 engine, the only mods allowed were a cam from a 1500 and carb from a 1500, a blue printed engine with raised compression was capable of putting out up to 95 hp, unfortunately I cannot get any info from the engine builders or they wont tell me their secrets.
 
Re: rally strada

Ummm..... the turbo inlet manifold doesnt make the power, thats the job of the turbo!!! I'm sorry but you are comparing apple with oranges if you use that sort of logic

I'm not 100% sure on this, but are the FI manifolds for say an X19 1500 and the UnoT identical?? They certainly look the same, but I've never had one of each side by side to compare them

I know the injectors would be larger in the unoT... possibly too large for a naturally aspirated application....if the duty cycle of an injector is too low, tuning problems await!! (most injectors work best around 70-80% duty cycle.)

Remember its not more fuel you need to get thru the engine... its air!

The only way you could raise the C/R by skimming 1mm from the block, is if you then also modified the piston crowns as well.

In a standard engine the piston is (just about) level with the top of the block anyway... decking the block to get the piston flush with (or slightly proud of) the block surface will raise the C/R for sure.... but not all the way to 11:1... not a chance, you would be lucky to see 10:1

A mm off the head wont drop the chamber volume by that much either....

95hp from a 1300 isnt mind blowing by any means, and yes carb, cam, exhaust and some compression will easily achieve this.

Carb for a 1500 has bigger chokes (23 and 26) compared to 22/22 for a std 1300, the 1500 euro camshaft is the same as a 128coupe/rally cam (24/68 64/28) which compares to the std 15/55 55/15 (or there abouts), with a vernier adjustable cam gear more power might be available (at certain revs)

SteveC
 
I think your missing the point, never mind thanks for all your encouragement :rolleyes: I will try to keep you up to date on my progress, First job is to change the front brakes from the original 227mm discs to 257mm tipo discs along with the tipo caliper. Following that I intend to ditch the rear transverse spring and fit coilovers, then fit rear uno turbo discs(maybe) then engine work, hope to have all done by the end of the year.
 
Leave it on twin carbs - unless you are converting to throttle boddies you will get more power from twin carbs over a standard fuel injection system.

By all means go over to a megajolt DIY-ECU kit for the ignition system but other than that, your power will come from head work and a cam change...
 
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