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Old 02-04-2017   #1
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<as yet unnamed>, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Having gotten rid of my 1.3 diesel Grande Punto last year after now not needing a car for commuting, Mrs Cadabena and I have bought a 1.4 Tjet Bravo to cover both our needs. Initially we were torn - I wanted a 150 Sport and she wanted a 120 Dynamic, but after many test drives of different specs I had to concede that she was right The interior felt leagues above the Sport, the added toys (climate, rear elec windows) were great and the 120 actually felt nicer to drive thanks to the low RPM turbo. So we were extra lucky to find an excellent condition example fitting the bill with just 40k miles 5 miles away from home! Serviced every year, like-new condition inside and out, and got the dealer to throw in a cam belt change, full service and tank of fuel, all for £3795. Boy has depreciation been wicked to the Bravo. So here she is:

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In time, I'm sure we'll get some better photos in slightly nicer locations than our cramped drive, but I couldn't wait to share the excitement!
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Old 02-04-2017   #2
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Re: <as yet unnamed>, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Nice car!
I have the 120hp T-Jet as well in my Doblo and I've driven the Bravo 150 of a friend of mine: I agree with you about the 120hp being nicer to drive, and I haven't even owned a diesel car for quite some years.

The difference is not only the turbo, but also the camshafts: the 150hp is more tuned towards power in the higher rev range at cost of torque down low, the 120hp has great pick up in daily traffic but drops at about 4.5k rpm.

I don't know if the Bravo is like that too, but my Doblo seems to be limited (less torque) in lower gears, if I could unleash its full potential in 2nd and 3rd I bet the T-Jet 120 isn't even that much slower off the line than the 150.

I'm now working with Fiat to get rid of that limitation, if that isn't succesful I'll contact a chiptuning company.
If you're interested: I've made a thread about it I'll keep updated, check out the list of threads I've started in my user profile (something with "boost by gear") to find it and subscribe to it.
You'll also find my "Members Motors" thread to see what I'm doing with my Doblo.

Greetings from Belgium,
Isabelle
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Old 02-04-2017   #3
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Re: <as yet unnamed>, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Quote Originally Posted by Candisa View Post
Nice car!

I don't know if the Bravo is like that too, but my Doblo seems to be limited (less torque) in lower gears, if I could unleash its full potential in 2nd and 3rd I bet the T-Jet 120 isn't even that much slower off the line than the 150

Greetings from Belgium,
Isabelle

They may be similar for the first half second after the light goes green, but the 120 has 20% less power than the 150 - it will be behind before either car is out of first gear . (Software limitations aside)

Congrats on your purchase Cadabena, your car looks very tidy! I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine. (Although with an average speed of 13 mph over the last 65 miles, I am not really enjoying it that much )
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Old 02-04-2017   #4
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Re: <as yet unnamed>, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

I wouldn't be so sure about that...
Numbers only tell the story of the specific conditions they're measured in.

Unless racing uphill with a lot of weight in the car, first gear doesn't really load the engine all that much as soon as you're moving. This means less pressure on the exhaust gasses compared to higher gears, which results in less boost.
The smaller turbo of the 120hp version is actually very likely to be more efficient in 1st and 2nd gear when unlimited, this is also the reason why staggered bi-turbo and variable geometry turbo setups exist.

The "120hp" has proven to be underrated (most likely for marketing reasons, they're pushing 130-135hp irl) measured on dynamometers, which are always done in a taller gear to provide a good load to the engine.
The 150hp in stock form only delivers its full potential in "overboost", which also doesn't come into action in lower gears.

While the 150hp will have the advantage of being able to draw out the revs a bit more, considering the above ánd my experience with a Bravo 150, I'm pretty sure an "unleashed" T-Jet 120 would keep up better and longer off the line than the brochure numbers would let one suspect.

Aren't the gear ratios a bit different too?
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Old 02-04-2017   #5
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Re: <as yet unnamed>, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Bravos are always top of my list.. well done on getting one.
But I have to disagree on the dynamic being better (flood gates are now open..lol)
As u can see by my pictures I have a 1.9 multyjet 150 sport and it is the ******.. full leather and all boys toys.. and the torque and power not to mention the comfort of the drive is way better than the 120 dynamic, hands down all day long.
How do I know.. I hear u say..?
It's because I also have a 120 dynamic that I bought for my wife (£30 a year tax &#128518
But each to their own and just glad to see another bravo owner
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Old 03-04-2017   #6
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Quote Originally Posted by allan jenkins View Post
...I have a 1.9 multyjet 150 sport and it is the ******.. full leather and all boys toys.. and the torque and power not to mention the comfort of the drive is way better than the 120 dynamic, hands down all day long.
The 1.9 diesel 150hp is a totally different animal than the 1.4 petrol 150hp.
The diesel has a clear low rev torque advantage + you don't need to rev it uncomfortably high to get peak power = a true overall improvement over the T-Jet 120 performance wise.
The petrol 150hp only delivers some extra power up top + laggier than the 120 down low = more nervous power delivery for subtle gains.
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Old 03-04-2017   #7
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Re: <as yet unnamed>, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Quote Originally Posted by Candisa View Post
The 1.9 diesel 150hp is a totally different animal than the 1.4 petrol 150hp.
The diesel has a clear low rev torque advantage + you don't need to rev it uncomfortably high to get peak power = a true overall improvement over the T-Jet 120 performance wise.
The petrol 150hp only delivers some extra power up top + laggier than the 120 down low = more nervous power delivery for subtle gains.
My bad 😆
I thought we were talking about the 150 diesel and I thought no way can you compare my multyjet beast to a dynamic... lol
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Old 04-04-2017   #8
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Re: <as yet unnamed>, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Quote Originally Posted by Candisa View Post
I wouldn't be so sure about that...
Numbers only tell the story of the specific conditions they're measured in.

Unless racing uphill with a lot of weight in the car, first gear doesn't really load the engine all that much as soon as you're moving. This means less pressure on the exhaust gasses compared to higher gears, which results in less boost.
The smaller turbo of the 120hp version is actually very likely to be more efficient in 1st and 2nd gear when unlimited, this is also the reason why staggered bi-turbo and variable geometry turbo setups exist.

The &quot;120hp&quot; has proven to be underrated (most likely for marketing reasons, they're pushing 130-135hp irl) measured on dynamometers, which are always done in a taller gear to provide a good load to the engine.
The 150hp in stock form only delivers its full potential in &quot;overboost&quot;, which also doesn't come into action in lower gears.

While the 150hp will have the advantage of being able to draw out the revs a bit more, considering the above ánd my experience with a Bravo 150, I'm pretty sure an &quot;unleashed&quot; T-Jet 120 would keep up better and longer off the line than the brochure numbers would let one suspect.

Aren't the gear ratios a bit different too?
I've no idea if the ratios are different! I know that in my car, first gear is very low ratio - Only used from a dead stop. I usually short shift immediately into 2nd.

Any potential torque advantage will be lost by the middle of the rev-range in second gear, there will be more than enough exhaust gasses under full throttle to spool the turbos in both cars up - Then the 120 will go backwards. Also, I don't believe the 150 Dynamics have over boost.

I agree that the earlier peak torque of the 120 will make it more relaxing to drive in traffic.

Has the car got a name yet OP?
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Last edited by Matthen; 04-04-2017 at 11:45.
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Old 04-04-2017   #9
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Re: &amp;amp;lt;as yet unnamed&amp;amp;gt;, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

I also don't think the dynamics have the sport button, this is the CITY steering wheel control button in most bravo.

The 120 Tjet also uses a 5 speed fiat box, were as the 150Tjet uses the GM M32 gearbox. I personally short shift also to 2nd.

I find the vl36 turbo in my 150Tjet a joy to drive around town. Compared to my alfa mito 155hp which is the equivalent of abarth Grande punto had the vl37 that was a bit more all of nothing.

Having owned all three setups of the Tjet none really surfer any turbo lag due to the small engine capacity compared to larger 2ltr petrol turbo cars I have own.

It's a shame the Tjet unit is being faded out of production shortly as it is a peach and something special in the A595/A695.

Also OP good choice with your bravo, they are underated and great value for money.

I hope you enjoy it and get some good info from this section, it has always helped me with any problems!
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Last edited by 1.8Stilo; 04-04-2017 at 16:11.
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Old 05-04-2017   #10
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Re: <as yet unnamed>, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Thanks all still doesn't have a name, Mrs Cadabena has been driving it all week so I'm expecting she will christen is at some stage. The 120 Tjet does in fact have the 6 speed M32, it's the 120 Mjet that has the 5 speed. Having had to have the bearings replaced in my old 1.3 Punto I was particularly wary of this, however with the reduced torque and the fact it's such low mileage, I'm hoping I should be safe. I listened for the old 6th whine on the test drive and heard nothing. Also you're right about the Sport button being the City steering (girl mode) button on all Dynamics, 150 included.
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Old 06-04-2017   #11
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Re: &amp;amp;lt;as yet unnamed&amp;amp;gt;, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Quote Originally Posted by 1.8Stilo View Post
It's a shame the Tjet unit is being faded out of production shortly as it is a peach and something special in the A595/A695.
Is it really going out of production? I thought it was being ramped up to replace the MultiAir (either out of reliability issues or that they're going for a Fiat-Tjet/Alfa MAir distinction), both the Tipo and 500X offer the 120hp Tjet but no MultiAir.
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Old 06-04-2017   #12
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Re: &amp;lt;as yet unnamed&amp;gt;, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Tipo yes has the Tjet but the 500x has the 140 multi air. The Tjet dates back to the uno.

There was a press release recently which detailed the engine's fiat were going to focus on producing, which are firefly engines?! then fade out such engines as the Tjet and fire engines that have been around for years

I also agree with the reliability of the Tjet being better than multi air, although I'm lead to believe this is better now 👍
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Last edited by 1.8Stilo; 06-04-2017 at 21:44.
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Old 08-04-2017   #13
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Re: &amp;lt;as yet unnamed&amp;gt;, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Interesting. Information here for anyone interested. The new 1.3 turbo could be fun, a shame they're going down the well-trodden 1.0 3 cylinder turbo route that all other manufacturers have gone down, but hey who can blame them.

Also, entirely unrelated, but is this normal for the exhaust to wobble so much? I don't think it's the standard exhaust, which is fine, but I want to make sure it's secured properly. I think there's a bit of ribbon holding it on just down from the back box.

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Old 08-04-2017   #14
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Re: <as yet unnamed>, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Do you have any knocking noises when you go over speed humps, bumps in the road or around corners. The rubbers on the hangers tend perish which will allow more movement.
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Old 09-04-2017   #15
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Re: <as yet unnamed>, our 120hp Tjet Bravo

Quote Originally Posted by 1.8Stilo View Post
Do you have any knocking noises when you go over speed humps, bumps in the road or around corners. The rubbers on the hangers tend perish which will allow more movement.
I just see this picture, it shows how close the exhaust sits to the rear beam and spare wheel. Which goes back to my point about the rubber mounts, which you can see both in the picture!

http://www.fiat-sportiva.de/images/p...ges/2287_1.jpg

When I changed my exhaust bracket, I used the Stilo bracket mount here as it was the same as the bravo's but half the price I also put a cable tie around where you can see the fabric strap to keep it torqued up nicely!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-X-BACK-B...EAAOSwo6lWMkqi

I never replaced the rear mount, but you can get poly version like these:

http://www.fiat-sportiva.de/Tuning-S...unt::2909.html
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