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Old 01-04-2007   #1
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Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

After coming across information about the new Fiat Bravo, to be released in Australia some time this year, I've been trying to find out what exactly the DuaLogic gearbox is (I don't even know if it'll be an option in the Bravo or whatever its name will ultimately be for the Australian market; Bravo is already taken by Mazda, apparently).

Is it a normal-looking manual gearbox with normal-looking gear lever and a normal-looking clutch pedal that can be turned into "automatic" mode and does the gear lever move itself when the gears are changed?

If it's nothing more than an everyday automatic with gear-up and gear-down levers along with D, R, N, and P, then I don't really get what's so exciting about the DuaLogic.

I kinda thought that a manual car that's as manual as every other car that had a button to "automate" the manual changes but still could operate 100% like a manual (including the clutch pedal) would be great, but I suspect that this isn't the case...

Does anybody have any hard facts on the DuaLogic that don't leave unanswered questions like the ones I've raised above? I especially would like to know if you can operate the clutch pedal yourself when not in automatic mode.

Thanks :-)
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Old 01-04-2007   #2
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

Firstly, welcome I'm assuming you're from Oz, right?

In a nutshell the Dualogic is an automatic gearbox with sequential manual transmission (or you can think of it as been a manual gearbox with auto transmission but I think the former is a more accurate description).

In auto mode, its just like an auto gearbox. In manual mode, you push the gearstick up to go up a gear, and down to go down a gear, just like a tiptronic. To switch between the auto and manual modes, you just have to push it to the left and release. Its clutchless so there are only two pedals; just push the gearstick either up or down, no need to press/step on anything. This, and the illustration on the top of the gearstick distinguishes it from a normal manual.

There's nothing really special about this, but Fiat claims that the DL allows for better fuel economy and performance at the same time. At the moment I'm running an average of 7L/100km, which isn't too bad. Performance wise, well that's debatable

Personally I've been having problems with it for a few months and it appears to have been fixed now (don't want to be too optimistic about it). For more info, have a read of https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-pun...cond-gear.html

Hope that helps
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Old 01-04-2007   #3
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

Yep, I'm from Australia; Tamworth, in fact, where there's no Fiat dealership (yet?).

I suspected what you described was the case for the DuaLogic, but deep down I was hoping for some way-cool normal manual that could also turn into an auto. Still, DuaLogic sounds nice enough, but also does sound like one of those things that might not be 100% perfect, as your problems might suggest.

The pictures of the Fiat Bravo appealed to me instantly, unlike other cars (such as the new Camry, for example) that I had to gradually talk myself into liking (my current car is a Camry). The only thing I would be concerned about if I bought a Fiat (apart from the nearest dealer being 300km+ away, in Newcastle) would be what I might expect to be pretty severe depreciation.

Still, the Bravo does look like one nice piece of automobile :-)
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Old 01-04-2007   #4
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

That was the first thing that crossed my mind when you mentioned Tamworth - if the GP is the reliability benchmark in which the Bravo is based on, then you'll find yourself spending a lot of time on the highway back and forth to your nearest dealer

Depreciation rate for Fiats would be fairly new to AU as its only been less than a year since they rejoined the market. But if you look at some UK figures it should give you a rough indication.

If you think the Bravo looks nice, then wait till you see the new 500
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Old 02-04-2007   #5
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

I do like the look of the new Fiat 500, but liking the look of it is a whole different kettle of fish than actually buying one :-) It's cute but it's a little on the small side for me (6 feet tall, "big boned"). Thanks for your replies. They've been very informative.
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Old 02-04-2007   #6
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

I like dualogic in manual mode where you just touch the lever foward/back & on alfas I like the steering wheel gearchange buttons however not great fan of them in auto-mode,tend to lurch/surge.
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Old 02-04-2007   #7
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

Quote Originally Posted by Rainier View Post
I do like the look of the new Fiat 500, but liking the look of it is a whole different kettle of fish than actually buying one :-) It's cute but it's a little on the small side for me (6 feet tall, "big boned"). Thanks for your replies. They've been very informative.
No problem, hope I haven't turned you off from Fiats by giving you some facts and personal experiences

Quote Originally Posted by T14086 View Post
I like dualogic in manual mode where you just touch the lever foward/back
Yep, makes me look cool
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Old 02-04-2007   #8
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

Just to keep the update going.
The Dualogic is "special" as it is essentially the same manual Gearbox that runs in all the GP's but has an electronic actuator which changes the gears. you get the same performance out of the auto as you do the manual and if you keep the ECO button pressed you get better fuel economy. Something that all other manufacturers dont manage as they use CVT for Auto's.
A few teething problems have occured (LuvDuvs know's all about that one!) but then again they did with the Alfa's and Selespeed but look at it now, a much better system and a joy to drive (in manual mode!)

Bravo probably wont be called Bravo here, who knows what it will be though!
and i THINK it will be a full auto, not Dualogic. I'll keep you posted on it when i hear more!
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Old 02-04-2007   #9
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

Quote Originally Posted by luvduvs View Post
No problem, hope I haven't turned you off from Fiats by giving you some facts and personal experiences
Not entirely, though I'd probably be more inclined to buy one if there was a local dealer. My sister-in-law says that depreciation isn't so much of an issue for people like me that tend to keep cars for a long time (I've had my '93 Camry Vienta for ten years now).

Quote Originally Posted by fiatdownunder View Post
Bravo probably wont be called Bravo here, who knows what it will be though! and i THINK it will be a full auto, not Dualogic. I'll keep you posted on it when i hear more!
I'd probably be more comfortable with a real automatic than a strange auto-ised manual with no clutch pedal. But if it was a normal manual that could become an automatic at the flick of a switch, that'd be a an instant sale in my book :-)
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Old 02-04-2007   #10
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

Quote Originally Posted by fiatdownunder View Post
Just to keep the update going.
The Dualogic is "special" as it is essentially the same manual Gearbox that runs in all the GP's but has an electronic actuator which changes the gears. you get the same performance out of the auto as you do the manual and if you keep the ECO button pressed you get better fuel economy. Something that all other manufacturers dont manage as they use CVT for Auto's.
A few teething problems have occured (LuvDuvs know's all about that one!) but then again they did with the Alfa's and Selespeed but look at it now, a much better system and a joy to drive (in manual mode!)
There you go - straight from the expert's mouth

Quote Originally Posted by Rainier View Post
Not entirely, though I'd probably be more inclined to buy one if there was a local dealer. My sister-in-law says that depreciation isn't so much of an issue for people like me that tend to keep cars for a long time (I've had my '93 Camry Vienta for ten years now).
My mom has a Camry the same age as yours and also drove it for 10 years. I think depending on the circumstances its a good idea to change cars every now and then (3 - 4 years perhaps); that way it keeps it 'fresh' and warranty is definitely a big plus.
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Old 02-04-2007   #11
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

Quote Originally Posted by Rainier View Post
does the gear lever move itself when the gears are changed?
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Old 02-04-2007   #12
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

never noticed that.

Thats a 'no' Rainier
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Old 03-04-2007   #13
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

Quote Originally Posted by jug View Post
What's so funny about that? When I first saw the Dualogic I asked the dealer why the clutch pedal is missing when its a manual, to which he explained in a nice way that its not actually a manual but an automatic. Point I'm trying to make is, unlike the UK, Fiat and the Dualogic are new to AU, especially to the younger generation that didn't grow up with the brand. To add to that there wouldn't be many GPs where Rainier is because as he stated the nearest Fiat dealer is 300+kms away.

I'm guessing when Rainier was trying to find more information his sources would be [1] family/friends, [2] the Fiat AU site, and [3] this forum. If he's made to feel like he's asking dumb questions, then he'll just probably not come back again.

And to me no question is a dumb question - its a bit like me asking people here what 頂你個肺 means (without Googling it or asking people). You don't know what that means not because you're stupid, but because you're not familiar with it, and hence why people ask questions, and partly why this forum was created, right?
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Old 03-04-2007   #14
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

I haven't taken any offense, but thanks for coming to my rescue, luvduvs. I work in IT and I'm guilty of laughing at people's strange musings at times (though, I usually retain the laughter until the person has hung up or left my office)...

Anyway, this is one of many articles I read when I was trying to find out what DuaLogic was: http://www.italiancar.net/site/news/...iat_Punto.html

Quote Quote:
The DuaLogic gearbox, which is available on the Fiat Punto with the 1.4 petrol engine as well as the Turbo Diesel Punto 1.3 JTD, is technically described as a sequential manual gearbox, which means it has a conventional clutch and gearbox, so there is no power-sapping torque converter and hydraulic gears. Instead there is small, light actuator unit to operate the clutch and move the gears, plus a highly intelligent computer.
This certainly sounded to me like it was a normal manual in every respects except that it could "take over" and become an automatic at the flick of a switch. My knowledge of engines could be written down on a Post-It note but I guess this probably meant that there is a normal clutch plate and not a normal clutch pedal. Still, it would be nice if Fiat themselves could explain DuaLogic in a completely unambiguous way.

I don't think I've actually seen any Fiats on the road for many, many, years... and of those I remember seeing, they're really old 60s/70s Fiats so it'll probably take some time for Fiat to gain some reputation, I guess.
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Old 10-04-2007   #15
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Re: Just what is DuaLogic exactly?

Quote Originally Posted by Rainier View Post
I haven't taken any offense, but thanks for coming to my rescue, luvduvs. I work in IT and I'm guilty of laughing at people's strange musings at times (though, I usually retain the laughter until the person has hung up or left my office)...

Anyway, this is one of many articles I read when I was trying to find out what DuaLogic was: http://www.italiancar.net/site/news/...iat_Punto.html



This certainly sounded to me like it was a normal manual in every respects except that it could "take over" and become an automatic at the flick of a switch. My knowledge of engines could be written down on a Post-It note but I guess this probably meant that there is a normal clutch plate and not a normal clutch pedal. Still, it would be nice if Fiat themselves could explain DuaLogic in a completely unambiguous way.

I don't think I've actually seen any Fiats on the road for many, many, years... and of those I remember seeing, they're really old 60s/70s Fiats so it'll probably take some time for Fiat to gain some reputation, I guess.
hmmmm having read that it is explained a little weirdly eh!
but to set it straight it is an electro-hydraulic clutch with no clutch pedal.
best bet is to go drive one, remember though if you dont ease off the accelerator when you change gear (like in a manual) then it will have a jerky gear change. (note i say ease off not lift off completely! you will not get the true feel of the car from the first drive, pretty much guaruntee that one!)
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