Where on earth is the rumoured 190bhp version of FIAT's Twin Turbo diesel?
It was supposed to be around by now, the 177bhp version in the Saab Ttid has been out for over a year......

I was really hoping they'd fit the 190bhp Twin Turbo motor to the new Bravo, it's just the mid sized-hatch they should build to get them noticed more. I'd imagine 0-60 around 7.5 and a 140mph top end. They've released the new Lancia Delta with this engine abroad, and here next year. Pretty sure looking at the pics the Delta must be a Bravo under the skin. And ultimately they should fit the same engine to the Grande Punto, what a torquey little beast it would be, and as rapid as a golf gti.

And ideally, fiat should offer the 1.9TwinTurbo JTD as a new retrofit engine for about a grand. I'd plonk one straight in my Marea JTD weekend and my would it fly. Better still a MK1 Bravo.

Does anyone know how physically different the TwinTurbo engine is the the 1st generation JTD105/110 motor? I see it still has the same 1910cc block....

And does anyone know how difficult fitting a current 150bhp mulitijet engine from a new Bravo would be to my Marea? I've seen a few salvage wrecks.....One pal told me it would fit onto the same mounts and would the 6 speed gearbox too?....any info would be appreciated.

I like the newer cars, but they are all getting too fat and podgy, including the Fiats. A new Bravo is a full 200kg heavier than my Marea Weekend. I mean, it's just silly. But my Marea would be pretty quick with one of the engines....

If the current Golf GTi had the weight of a mK2 with the same current engine, it'd have a far more exciting 250bhp per ton than the actual 150 per ton.

they were only rumours started by the motoring press.

the 1.6JTD is the only diesel newcomer, and it is already on sale.

the saab ttid does not mean there will be a jttd because GM and fiat parted company in 2005 before the GM twin turbo project started.

Yeah I was gonna say im sure GM are using it on the new SAAB, can remember seeing the advert

"Fantastic overtaking power of a large engine and the economy and emissions of a small one"

And yes modern cars are getting dull and boring, bloody safety hippys!. 1.8 20v Turbo engine out of a Octavia vRS tuned to 220bhp+ and into a mk2 golf FTMW :slayer:.

jug said:

they were only rumours started by the motoring press.

the 1.6JTD is the only diesel newcomer, and it is already on sale.

the saab ttid does not mean there will be a jttd because GM and fiat parted company in 2005 before the GM twin turbo project started.

Click to expand...

Hmmm.... Doesn't look like a rumour to me, Badged 1.9 JTD M it's on the Fiat Powertrain website, producing 190bhp@4000 rpm and 295lb/ft at 2000 rpm:

http://www.fptpowertrain.com/eng/pdf/Comunicato_uk.pdf

http://www.eurocarblog.com/post/499/fiat-powertrain-19-jtd-twin-stage-turbo-with-100-hpliter

JTDLee said:

Hmmm.... Doesn't look like a rumour to me, Badged 1.9 JTD M it's on the Fiat Powertrain website, producing 190bhp@4000 rpm and 295lb/ft at 2000 rpm:

http://www.fptpowertrain.com/eng/pdf/Comunicato_uk.pdf

http://www.eurocarblog.com/post/499/fiat-powertrain-19-jtd-twin-stage-turbo-with-100-hpliter

Click to expand...

oh now i see what they've done. the latest JTD is 1956cc but instead of calling it the 2.0JTD they're sticking with 1.9. the traditional 1.9JTD is 1910cc, so imo the new one should be called the 2.0JTD.

Pokey engine the new 1.9JTD, the newer 2.4JTD even better, still better the Autodelta D6 ( 3 Litre Diesel ) 14% more power than a BMW 535d.

quote=jug;1810388]oh now i see what they've done. the latest JTD is 1956cc but instead of calling it the 2.0JTD they're sticking with 1.9. the traditional 1.9JTD is 1910cc, so imo the new one should be called the 2.0JTD.[/quote]

Nope, on the Powertrain website it states the engine is 1910cc, the same swept capacity as the original JTD. And rather fun for me, the block has the same dimensions as mine so it IS possible to fit the new JTD m to the Marea/Mk1 Bravo.

Spoke to a Fiat Mechanic today: The JTD M Will fit my Marea, and so will the 6 speed gearbox. The speedo will reconnect too. The difficulty comes from the wiring, - I must transplant as much as possible of the newer wiring, the complete Bravo Mk2 loom to the Marea and then go and get all the fault codes cleared because there will be many from the electrical disconnection during the transplant. Good news. Hmmm, a Marea weekend with 0-60 in 8.0 (easily) and 0-100 in about 20 sounds very appealing, and that tall 6th gear should return 50+mpg at around 85mph. ...... Or remap as to 200bhp and be looking at 6 to 60 and 16 to 100mph. Hmmmm. : )

Nope, on the Powertrain website it states the engine is 1910cc, the same swept capacity as the original JTD. And rather fun for me, the block has the same dimensions as mine so it IS possible to fit the new JTD m to the Marea/Mk1 Bravo. [/quote]

the 1910cc is the 1.9JTD, the 1956cc is the 2.0JTD. so far the 2.0 has only been used on the new Lancia Delta.

you're correct any 1.9JTD will easily fit in your marea. so will the 2.4 20v 210bhp model with its 6 speed box. remap that and you'd have a marea that does 0-60 in about 7 secs while still returning 40mpg easily.

remapped 2.4 20v - easily 250bhp.

Both the 2.0 (1956 cm3) JTD with 165 HP and the 19. (1910 cm3) JTD are available in the new Lancia Delta over here. And don't forget the even older 1.9 (1929 cm3) TD that was in at least the Lancia Dedra way back when...

I really can't figure that one out. 1956 cm3 to replace the 1910 version. I mean if you're going to call it a 2.0 than give it 1998 cm3 or similar. Worse yet is what happens when the existing 2.4 JTD (2387 cm3) is replaced by the new 2.4 JTD (2445 cm3) so both engines are technically a 2.4. Of course if you can call 1248 cm3 a 1300, I guess you can also get away with calling a 2445 a 2500. The new 2.4 JTD at the same level of tune as the new 2.0 JTD would give 206 HP.

The replacement for the Alfa 147 will most likely get the same 1956 and 2445 JTD engines and I'd be rather shocked if the 190 HP 1910 was not on offer. Depending on which French car magazine you read, the new car will be called the 149, the Milano or maybe even the Guilia. It will be built on either a reworked version of the current Bravo platform or on an all new Bravo 2 platform. It may or may not come out in September 2009 or even in early 2010. Gotta love it...

raton_laveur said:

Both the 2.0 (1956 cm3) JTD with 165 HP and the 1.9 (1910 cm3) JTD with 190 HP are available in the new Lancia Delta over here. And don't forget the even older 1.9 (1929 cm3) TD that was in at least the Lancia Dedra way back when...

I really can't figure that one out. 1956 cm3 to replace the 1910 version. I mean if you're going to call it a 2.0 than give it 1998 cm3 or similar. Worse yet is what happens when the existing 2.4 JTD (2387 cm3) is replaced by the new 2.4 JTD (2445 cm3) so both engines are technically a 2.4. Of course if you can call 1248 cm3 a 1300, I guess you can also get away with calling a 2445 a 2500. The new 2.4 JTD at the same level of tune as the new 2.0 JTD would give 206 HP.

The replacement for the Alfa 147 will most likely get the same 1.6, 1.9 and 2.0 diesel engines as the Lancia Delta. Depending on which French car magazine you read, the new car will be called the 149, the Milano or maybe even the Guilia. It will be built on either a reworked version of the current Bravo platform or on an all new Bravo 2 platform. It may or may not come out in September 2009 or even in early 2010. Who knows, the Bravo 2 (if it exists) will be the base for the delayed estate and MPV versions of the Bravo. Gotta love it...

Click to expand...

Can't find the EDIT button...

But fixed it this way. Hope no one saw the original

Quote from lancia site:

1.9 Twinturbo Multijet 190 bhp. Revolutionary.
A revolutionary new engine that the Delta is the first to offer on the market. It responds immediately and powerfully to the driver’s instructions and offers a thrilling drive in all conditions. The main innovation is the adoption of two turbochargers, guaranteeing record-breaking performance: 400 Nm of peak torque at 2000 rpm, with 300 Nm available at only 1250 rpm. Thanks to the two superchargers, it can deliver an extremely high maximum power output: 190 bhp, which is around100 bhp/litre.

newbie here...
will your Fiat mechanic consider a retrofit? i'd shove it in a multipla just for the giggle...

All i know is there is a 2.4 JTD engine thats in the fiat croma and alfa 159 , which has 200bhp and 0-60 in about 8.5 secs, i know some 147's have 170bhp jtdm engines too

Hell shove it in a Mk2 Punto, the HGT diesel had the 1.9 JTD

fenton_jd said:

Hell shove it in a Mk2 Punto, the HGT diesel had the 1.9 JTD

Click to expand...

Won't fit. It's a 5 cylinder.

Hellcat said:

Won't fit. It's a 5 cylinder.

Click to expand...

the 20v turbo coupe engine fits

toad101 said:

the 20v turbo coupe engine fits

Click to expand...

Have you got any pictures or links to a conversion? I'm quite interested in this...

Was on holiday in Italy in 2007 and a copy of Quattroroute stated that there was a 1.9 JTDm in the works putting out 180/190bhp and clearly stated the lower rated engine would be available in FIATs, Vauxhalls/Opels, SAABs and Cadillacs with the 190 version only found in Lancias and Alfas.

As has been said that engine hasn't showed up in a FIAT Group product yet and since then a 2 litre version has been pushed in the Lancia Delta and FIAT Bravo putting out 165bhp.

toad101 said:

the 20v turbo coupe engine fits

Click to expand...

I'm sure the 2.0 5 cylinder conversions required some savagery of the front supporting metalwork. Fitting in a 2.4 is an even larger unit, not to mention the weight.

Best use would be a modern 2.4 5pot in a classic Bravo, using Marea wings and bumper to avoid the need for butchery of the cars looks.