Hi all

Iʼm an occasional lurker here, but newly-registered - forgive me if I missed anything.

I decided to investigate why my Punto Grande is having a hell of a time starting in this cold winter down in South Africa. It turns and turns and turns and eventually in a big puff of white smoke she starts. Also sometimes smelled exhaust in the cockpit, so that was a clue.

Google searches about not starting in the cold brought me here, reading about glow plugs, split breathers, etc., so I decided to take the air filter/cover off and have a look. Car never used to leak a drop of oil, but of late Iʼve seen oil spots after driving.

What I found of most concern was a hose behind the engine that appears to have a crack in it. I have looked for exploded diagrams on Google, engine teardowns on YouTube, but I just canʼt figure out what this pipe is called or what purpose it serves, so I hope someone can give me a pointer - then at least Iʼll know what to replace!

Iʼm too new to be allowed to post links here, but I have a video. I also canʼt attach videos here :yuck: Best I can do is hint:
View attachment 219171

youtu[dot]be[slash]OvObcFJSHPg

Hope the mods donʼt mind!

[Also, if anyone knows how to handle a neighbourʼs dogʼs incessant barking, let me know ]

Cheers!

Hi

Is this a corrugated metaltube..

Or rubber ?

varesecrazy said:

Hi

Is this a corrugated metaltube..

Or rubber ?

Click to expand...

Iʼm going by feel, since itʼs so covered in oil, plus I can only get the camera in there, not my eyes. The cracked bit feels pliant like rubber.

I'm guessing this is a diesel. White smoke from a cold diesel is usually an indicator of cylinder temp too low to ignite the fuel properly. This is what glow plugs are for. Just that symptom on its own would cause me to investigate glow plug operation.
On a petrol engine, white smoke usually spells doom, with the head gasket leaking coolant into the cylinders. This is more likely as it gets warm, rather than at startup. Without gassing yourself to death, what does the white smoke smell like. Fuel, or coolant?

If turbo pipes are split or detached, the airflow to the engine changes, and will cause wrong fuelling if the errant pipe is after the airflow sensor.

I've no idea what pipes are present behind the engine, but there will be an oil supply to the turbo, and a drain, but a leak in either of these would spray a lot of oil, and quickly empty the sump.

Ideally, we need to know how big diameter this pipe is, and what it connects to at either end. Then we may know whether it is air, or something else.

varesecrazy said:

post4592759

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(I still canʼt do URLs)

Thanks for the tip! I measured the voltage at each glow plug connector and it did indeed turn on for about 15 seconds after turning the ignition on, then turned off per the timer, so that part is working.

portland_bill said:

I'm guessing this is a diesel. White smoke from a cold diesel is usually an indicator of cylinder temp too low to ignite the fuel properly. This is what glow plugs are for. Just that symptom on its own would cause me to investigate glow plug operation.

Click to expand...

Thanks! Yes, itʼs a diesel. Glow plugs have voltage, but Iʼm not happy with the resistance on them. Couldnʼt measure reliably as it was difficult getting the meter to read through the black on them. Time for new ones!

I've no idea what pipes are present behind the engine, but there will be an oil supply to the turbo, and a drain, but a leak in either of these would spray a lot of oil, and quickly empty the sump.

Ideally, we need to know how big diameter this pipe is, and what it connects to at either end. Then we may know whether it is air, or something else.

Click to expand...

Thanks again! The pipe is about a 1" outer diameter, going by finger-feel. Itʼs not spraying oil, but thereʼs oil around it and the area. Not a disastrous amount, though. Definitely something to fix, Iʼm just trying to figure out what it is so I know what to buy.

briantw said:

The pipe is about a 1" outer diameter, going by finger-feel. Itʼs not spraying oil, but thereʼs oil around it and the area. Not a disastrous amount, though. Definitely something to fix, Iʼm just trying to figure out what it is so I know what to buy.

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Definitely not the air supply to the engine then.
Oil drain from the turbo I'd expect to be a steel pipe, not a hose, or a flexible braided hose.
I'm thinking it may be pressure sensor related, perhaps taking pressure to the wastegate, or similar, so a leak will upset the fuelling. Really need to know what is at either end, so we can work out what it does.

As turbos get older, some oil does escape past their seals. From the exhaust side, it goes straight into the exhaust, so is just burnt, but can clog particulate filters quickly if one is fitted. On the inlet side, whilst some will get into the engine to be burnt, a lot just collects in the pipework, and intercooler if fitted, and whilst this builds over time, can appear frightening when discovered. The oil suggests this is on the intake side of the turbo.
varesecrazy any idea what pipe is on the back of the engine matching that size? Do you have access to any of your diesel vehicles right now, or not until the weekend?

portland_bill said:

Definitely not the air supply to the engine then.
Oil drain from the turbo I'd expect to be a steel pipe, not a hose, or a flexible braided hose.
I'm thinking it may be pressure sensor related, perhaps taking pressure to the wastegate, or similar, so a leak will upset the fuelling. Really need to know what is at either end, so we can work out what it does.


varesecrazy any idea what pipe is on the back of the engine matching that size? Do you have access to any of your diesel vehicles right now, or not until the weekend?

Click to expand...

I will be under one in the next 20 minutes..

In the meantime here is a taster..

Manifold.. corrugated EGR tube.. and a black rubber hose passing down near the Alternator

A few additional pics

The BLACK pot seems to be a crankcase breather... its next to the Alternator..
So pretty low down

Not too many rubber pipes down the back

Above gearbox are thermostat to heater matrix hoses.. and the EGR cooler obviously has some that run around to midway at the back

Hope that helps figure it out

Thanks for the pics, hopefully briantw can pinpoint what is causing the issue.

If it is a breather that is leaking oil, that is just messy, won't be related to a cold start issue.

Yes I would be swapping the plugs too..

BUT read all the info on here to be properly prepared

You guys have been awesome, thanks so much. Iʼll try and source some glow plugs tomorrow (if I can get her to start - Iʼve already killed the battery trying, so Iʼve had to bring it inside for overnight charging).

As for the pipe, Iʼll keep investigating. I could possibly make another video that makes it clearer. If itʼs not a high-pressure hose, I might just pull out the dreaded hillbilly duct tape (sorry) to see if that makes any difference until I can get the proper thing. Iʼll probably need to clean the pipe up if I want the tape to hold.

Well, this is odd. We woke up plenty early to do the 1.5 mile walk to school if the car was too cold to start. After putting a bit of tape around that hose and putting back the air filter and battery (which trickle-charged up to 12.85V overnight), I still wasnʼt expecting any luck in this 3-degree Celcius cold, but she started up within 5 seconds! My 10-year-old was happy we didnʼt have to walk to school.

So the hose seems to be affecting the starting. But we still need to know what is at each end of it, to identify it for you.

Unless of course, a fully charged battery did it, and the wrapped hose is a red herring.

So the hose seems to be affecting the starting. But we still need to know what is at each end of it, to identify it for you.

Unless of course, a fully charged battery did it, and the wrapped hose is a red herring.

portland_bill said:

Unless of course, a fully charged battery did it, and the wrapped hose is a red herring.

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I wouldnʼt think the battery had anything to do with it. The only reason I had to charge it overnight was because I tried over, and over, and over again yesterday to start her and eventually the battery had enough.