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Technical Front Suspension - Control arms replacing?

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Technical Front Suspension - Control arms replacing?

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everson38

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Hey guys.

I have a Grande Punto Tjet 1.4 2009 plate. I recently put up a post about front end knocking noise when go over bumps (it's not every pump quite just quite big ones). No i did change to front lower springs a few months ago and the noise started from then but I have checked and really tightened things twice now so thinking something else maybe at hand.

Can anyone tell me if my control arm bushes are normal. Mine seem to recess down and I'm not sure if the bushing is torn or if there was aways slots in the bushings

(See video below as I show what I mean)

Thanks

[ame]https://youtu.be/AMIjbJRS0Qc[/ame]
 
A bit difficult to see from your "wobbly" camera handling but those look like "void" bushes to me. They have solid rubber to resist movement in the most "stressed" direction with holes, or very thin rubber, in the direction in which minimum forces are acting. It's very usual to find this design of bush in modern suspension systems as they allow a much more quiet and "compliant" ride than solid rubber bushes.

If the rubber is still bonded securely to the metal and there are no signs of cracking or tearing of the rubber itself then it's probably all ok and from what I can see it looks ok. If you try levering against the metal arm itself then it should be quite easy to get movement in line with the voids but much harder to move in line with the solid parts.
 
Prime suspects for knocking noises in front suspension could be anti-roll bar rubbers (but the one in your video looked to be ok so probably it's pal on the other side will be ok too?), bottom ball joint or track rod end but my favourite suspect is one, or both, of the drop links. They can be difficult to diagnose as, even with the car jacked up, the anti-roll bar can exert enough tension to stop you feeling movement in their joints. Of course there can be other more subtle suspects, and you've altered the set up by fitting lowered springs, but I'd have a careful look at those link rods first.
 
If drop links are fine, check your bump stops, if they slide up and down really easy, change them, you will surprised of the knock they produce, there is a service news for them too
 
Boostjunkeee said:
If drop links are fine, check your bump stops, if they slide up and down really easy, change them, you will surprised of the knock they produce, there is a service news for them too
Click to expand...
Thanks for that one. I'd not have thought of that. In fact my relatively new, but now out of warranty, SEAT Ibiza ST has a strange "Plonkety Clonk" coming from it's o/s/f suspension, you hear it especially when going over speed bumps. I've been chasing it for over a year now and have narrowed it down to the strut itself or something to do with it's gator or, just possibly, the top mount. The only way you can produce it without driving her is to jack that side up 'till the wheel is just clear of the ground and then drop the jack very rapidly so the car "bounces" - As you can imagine, even if I get Mrs Jock to operate the jack (which terrifies her) it's quite risky with your hand up under the wing in amongst the spring and top plate etc when the car "bounces! Whilst she was still under warranty the main dealer, who agrees they can hear it, couldn't isolate it's source and just gave up saying "Well it's nothing dangerous (they checked all the ball joints, bushes, rack, etc, etc.) maybe we'll be able to find it when it gets worse!?" It's become a point of honour with me now that I AM GOING TO FIND THIS!
 
Its quite common, you can check all over arm and bushes and find nothing for this noise, i had put new top mounts on for the roughness on lock and mine started to knock only certain times on the road, noticed it was worse in colder temps, i cut the bump stops off just to test and it was silent, so ordered new ones and fitted asap, would not recommend driving without bump stops though, i done it just as a test, i tried a cable tie to make them tighter on the shaft but they was too worn
 
Boostjunkeee said:
If drop links are fine, check your bump stops, if they slide up and down really easy, change them, you will surprised of the knock they produce, there is a service news for them too
Click to expand...
Thanks for this. Never thought of this. My stops do move up and down easily but I thought that was normal, I had my cousins ford fiesta 1.0 ecpboost and noticed that looking as his front shocks his bumps stops were missing but turns out the were fixed up at the top of the strut underneath the rubber gaiter of course but I thought this was odd as mine linger down the bottom and thought that was the norm. What do u mean there is a service news for them?
 
Yeah they should be at the top, service news is basically a document released in the dealer network of a fault/complaint that has been reported a lot and the document shows you the fix for the concern
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
Thanks for that one. I'd not have thought of that. In fact my relatively new, but now out of warranty, SEAT Ibiza ST has a strange "Plonkety Clonk" coming from it's o/s/f suspension, you hear it especially when going over speed bumps. I've been chasing it for over a year now and have narrowed it down to the strut itself or something to do with it's gator or, just possibly, the top mount. The only way you can produce it without driving her is to jack that side up 'till the wheel is just clear of the ground and then drop the jack very rapidly so the car "bounces" - As you can imagine, even if I get Mrs Jock to operate the jack (which terrifies her) it's quite risky with your hand up under the wing in amongst the spring and top plate etc when the car "bounces! Whilst she was still under warranty the main dealer, who agrees they can hear it, couldn't isolate it's source and just gave up saying "Well it's nothing dangerous (they checked all the ball joints, bushes, rack, etc, etc.) maybe we'll be able to find it when it gets worse!?" It's become a point of honour with me now that I AM GOING TO FIND THIS!
Click to expand...
Hahaha hah me and you seem to be in same boat. I replaced my OEM springs to lowering springs (just for cost reason really was cheaper) and then had to change my shocks to just some temp Euro car parts SACHS shocks as MOT was approaching and my orginal ones had to be cut to get the rusted nut off. But after doing I got this knock. People saying not tightened up enough but I've taken them off 2 times and used an impact Gunton tighten down. Droplinks are only couple years old but only got about 1000 miles on them (but plan to swap a friends to eliminate them). But by God I have been hunting for about a year also. But I will find it. (I hope? Lol going to try those bump stops and see.
 
Boostjunkeee said:
Yeah as i work for them so got them discounted, around £25 i think it was for both
Click to expand...

Works for fiat ay, (new best friend here guys lol) What department are you in (just curious).

I think i have just had a massive brain wave (thanks to your bump stop idea). So anyone / boost junkee just bare with me and tell me if you think my theory makes sense but it will be abit of a read:

So all this started with me, needing to changing a broken coil spring as I failed MOT last year. I wanted to just buy OEM but one spring was like £250 and was told on forum i can get a eibach lowering spring kit for less. So i bought the eibach kit but upon trying to change them over my top nut on my driver side front shock was so rusty and the inner allen key was rusted out. I tried everything to get nut off (impact, clamping shock etc) and in the end had to die cut it off, but in doing so i cut into the thread part of the shocks shaft where you put on the final top nut. So with mot fast approaching i just bought some place holder shocks (Sachs from Euro car parts - I was lookin at bilstein from ECP but was told 4 weeks to arrive so no good).

Upon getting these ECP shocks, i ordered some nut top nuts that matched the same thread pitch as the OEM Fiat shocks as i had to cut them off, but then these new nuts didnt fit on the new Saschs as they had a tighter thread pitch. So i then ordered some more top nuts that matched the thread pitch of the Sachs ones.

Now here is brain wave. Do you think that these Sachs front shocks have an overall thinner shaft (where the bump stop / coil spring / gaiter sits) compared to Fiat OEM TJET ones, meaning that my OEM bump stops slide up and down more freely causing THE DREADED INTERMITTENT CLUNKY CUPPY sound? Please note my tjet is a 2009 but only 12k miles on the clock, i bought this out right with very high spec when i was 20ish and was overly / too cautious with my car in the first 5 years owning it hence mileage. I have had the front shocks apart 3 times for noise (seem fine), droplinks are newish and max have 300 - 800 miles on them and it seems from what you guys say my other suspension parts is ok?:)
 
everson38 said:
Works for fiat ay, (new best friend here guys lol) What department are you in (just curious).

I think i have just had a massive brain wave (thanks to your bump stop idea). So anyone / boost junkee just bare with me and tell me if you think my theory makes sense but it will be abit of a read:

So all this started with me, needing to changing a broken coil spring as I failed MOT last year. I wanted to just buy OEM but one spring was like £250 and was told on forum i can get a eibach lowering spring kit for less. So i bought the eibach kit but upon trying to change them over my top nut on my driver side front shock was so rusty and the inner allen key was rusted out. I tried everything to get nut off (impact, clamping shock etc) and in the end had to die cut it off, but in doing so i cut into the thread part of the shocks shaft where you put on the final top nut. So with mot fast approaching i just bought some place holder shocks (Sachs from Euro car parts - I was lookin at bilstein from ECP but was told 4 weeks to arrive so no good).

Upon getting these ECP shocks, i ordered some nut top nuts that matched the same thread pitch as the OEM Fiat shocks as i had to cut them off, but then these new nuts didnt fit on the new Saschs as they had a tighter thread pitch. So i then ordered some more top nuts that matched the thread pitch of the Sachs ones.

Now here is brain wave. Do you think that these Sachs front shocks have an overall thinner shaft (where the bump stop / coil spring / gaiter sits) compared to Fiat OEM TJET ones, meaning that my OEM bump stops slide up and down more freely causing THE DREADED INTERMITTENT CLUNKY CUPPY sound? Please note my tjet is a 2009 but only 12k miles on the clock, i bought this out right with very high spec when i was 20ish and was overly / too cautious with my car in the first 5 years owning it hence mileage. I have had the front shocks apart 3 times for noise (seem fine), droplinks are newish and max have 300 - 800 miles on them and it seems from what you guys say my other suspension parts is ok?:)
Click to expand...
I'm a tech in the workshop, (well jeep master tech) but get involved with other FCA vehicles.

Regarding your theory, yes it is possible, but I'm thinking more the bump stops, more regarding age than mileage. If you have original shocks maybe measure the shaft with a vernier then same with your new ones

I have the Eibachs on mine again due to fiat price, but done new top mounts again and bump stops, now all silent. Not exactly sure if the bum stops are modified at all, but the new ones gripped well on the shaft and stay at the top.
 
Boostjunkeee said:
I'm a tech in the workshop, (well jeep master tech) but get involved with other FCA vehicles.

Regarding your theory, yes it is possible, but I'm thinking more the bump stops, more regarding age than mileage. If you have original shocks maybe measure the shaft with a vernier then same with your new ones

I have the Eibachs on mine again due to fiat price, but done new top mounts again and bump stops, now all silent. Not exactly sure if the bum stops are modified at all, but the new ones gripped well on the shaft and stay at the top.
Click to expand...
Fair play for working there. Are you UK based or abroad with fiat? You don't happen to have the part number for them do you for the new bump stops? £25 seems a bit and I have already threw too.much money at this job due to unforseen circumstances. Hoping maybe they can be found via a 3rd party. Also want it cheaper 8f it isn't the bump stops will be a lot of money spent again to not fix it.
 
Uk based, part number is 51866009 to be honest it might of been cheaper, can't remember exactly but have a search for that number I'm sure you will find it cheaper
 
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