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Dealers, critical mass?

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Dealers, critical mass?

oilrag

oilrag

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I noticed some dealer closures and was contemplating the consequences.
Even if a local dealer is really good, what does it imply if one or two say 10 or 20 miles away close, even if popular opinion is that they are `poor`?
Is there a sort of `critical mass of numbers`in a brands dealership network where below this the marque may start to be perceived as obscure and a risk not worth taking?
For example, surely purchase negotiating power is potentially reduced if its the only dealership in a 20 mile radius and what if the `only one` closes or switches to another make? We also know that increased prices can prevail in a monopoly.
To contrast,
The GP looks great, but so does the new corsa, it also has the multijet ( ok different name:) engine and yellow pages is full of vauxhall dealers, lots of choice there.

It seems to me the trend of closures has the potential to reduce the dealer network to critical mass.
So its essential to support whats left, but its difficult when an oil filter is £12 +vat at the dealer parts desk but only £5+ vat at that `Italian specialist` in the next town.
It seems to me that an average dealership will have around £300 an hour costs just for staff wages let alone everything else.
IMHO, it raises the dilemma of whether to save money personally by taking the newly bought car straight to that `vat registered garage` for servicing and maintaining this out of warranty and for DIY parts,
Just letting the main dealer sort the warranty problems.
Or, really getting behind the dealership and supporting it despite paying more in the process?
If everyone did the latter perhaps some dealerships would not have closed and
If the network drops below `critical mass` perhaps we will all regret it?
Comments?
Regards
 
oilrag said:
I noticed some dealer closures and was contemplating the consequences.
Even if a local dealer is really good, what does it imply if one or two say 10 or 20 miles away close, even if popular opinion is that they are `poor`?
Is there a sort of `critical mass of numbers`in a brands dealership network where below this the marque may start to be perceived as obscure and a risk not worth taking?
For example, surely purchase negotiating power is potentially reduced if its the only dealership in a 20 mile radius and what if the `only one` closes or switches to another make? We also know that increased prices can prevail in a monopoly.
To contrast,
The GP looks great, but so does the new corsa, it also has the multijet ( ok different name:) engine and yellow pages is full of vauxhall dealers, lots of choice there.

It seems to me the trend of closures has the potential to reduce the dealer network to critical mass.
So its essential to support whats left, but its difficult when an oil filter is £12 +vat at the dealer parts desk but only £5+ vat at that `Italian specialist` in the next town.
It seems to me that an average dealership will have around £300 an hour costs just for staff wages let alone everything else.
IMHO, it raises the dilemma of whether to save money personally by taking the newly bought car straight to that `vat registered garage` for servicing and maintaining this out of warranty and for DIY parts,
Just letting the main dealer sort the warranty problems.
Or, really getting behind the dealership and supporting it despite paying more in the process?
If everyone did the latter perhaps some dealerships would not have closed and
If the network drops below `critical mass` perhaps we will all regret it?
Comments?
Regards
Click to expand...

:worship: :worship: :worship: FINALLY SOMEONE WHO DOESNT WORK IN THE TRADE THAT REALISES INTERNET BUYING AND SHOPPING FOR A "BETTER" DEAL ISNT ALWAYS WORTH WHAT YOU GET!!!

Everyone wants to get everything for nothing. running a dealership is very costly and the mark-up in cars is so minimal now that a lot of the smaller garages cannot compete with the car supermarkets.
Unless it's a big Franchise then it's very hard work.
Get behind the Dealers, use them or loose them! :eek:
 
T14086 said:
Dont hold your breath!
Click to expand...

people complain about having to travel miles for servicing, warranty work etc etc.
I often ask where the person bought the car from when they call to book in a car or complain about something. if it is from myself then i do everything possible to make it pleasant and trouble free.
When i hear it was bought off the internet/miles away/shopped against me then i am never half as helpful. sorry if people dont like to hear this but it's true.
Dont complain about how few dealers there are if you have shopped around everywhere for the lowest price, or if you have bought off the internet. it's YOU who has caused the downfall of dealers, whether it be Fiat, Vauxhall or anyone.

It's all about give and take, you give a bit, the dealer takes a lot... hehe sorry, bit tongue in cheek there.:devil:
You give a bit and so will the dealer. it makes the world go round!
 
hmm.... well the majority (not neccessarily all) of dealerships are Franchises, so the onwer of the dealership would have to pay a fee for use of the name (i.e Fiat) and then recieves cars at a discount and parts at a slight discount etc etc etc

but.... every car manufacturer has different bonuses, some give the odd few cars away free to their franchise dealers, others sell them to them cheaper etc, so its not neccessarily just about them closing. if they cant keep up wit hthe sales and the franshise liscences etc then they wont make a profit making it pointless to carry on under the same "Hat"

which is why they change :D


(confusing i know. but im at work and bored lol)
 
critical mass works in the opposite direction where dealers want to sell a brand because it has such a loyal following that the products will sell no matter what. Take Land Rover for instance with poor build quality and reliability or Mini. Small car with Chrysler engine but sold at a criminally high price.

Now if Fiat could just improve it's reputation in the market place then it too could reach that type of critical mass.
 
Fiat are definately doing their part of it, people just have memories and get stuck with them.
Look at Skoda, they still have the same name and it is taking ages for them to turn people around to see them as reputable cars.... i mean come on, it's a cheap VW at the end of the day yet they still struggle to sell them consistantly!

Fiat will start turning heads again when the 500 launches, i think that will be a good move for fiat and they shall start the climb. It's gonna be a little cult classic! (y)
 
I seem to have reached a state of equalibrium with my favorite dealer and my favorite garage.

I'm in the dealers every few months to buy some obscure parts. Door seals, gaskets etc. They give me a bit of discount which no matter how small, makes me feel appreciated for my custom. If I ever come to buy a new enough car to get it off the forecourt - then it will be from them. They also give me advice on solving problems which is excelent service.

My favorite garage undertake any work I am unable to, or simply don't have the time for. The new clutch on the JTD130 for example. I also buy my consumables from there (oil/air/fuel filters). I don't get discount as far as I'm aware but I get other benefits such as the odd free little job, or a diagnosis, or just trusting me to pay for a job/part later if I don't have the money with me :eek: They are also do me a great service of advice and the occasional unbolting of a siezed component with the air tools :rolleyes:

Then comes the favorite motor factors, who I get discount when buying bulk on things like oil and wiper blades - the benefit of being the servicer of many similar cars (4x JTDs).
 
T14086 said:
Our good customers get big discounts on parts,
Click to expand...

Better than going to the parts desk ( as a two car customer) and having to pay more for a filter than if it were supplied during the dealer service. :mad:

Of course, in response, I could pop over to the `italian specialist` buy 6 OE oil filters and save £42
+ save half the vat. I could then flick a mental switch and buy two Nova`s from Vauxhall with the multijet engine...
But of course I`m supportive........... Its the principle really and it (support) has to work both ways.
Next time I`m in Applecross I`ll look your place up T ;) after all we ( English) have poured enough subsidies into Scotland, must be worth a few oil filters :devil:
 
fiatdownunder said:
Everyone wants to get everything for nothing. running a dealership is very costly and the mark-up in cars is so minimal now that a lot of the smaller garages cannot compete with the car supermarkets.
Unless it's a big Franchise then it's very hard work.
Get behind the Dealers, use them or loose them! :eek:
Click to expand...

Up to a point. Everyone does want the best deal they can get, and many do not weigh up the value of the deal in any way other than cost. To not use a good dealer simply in order to save a few hundred notes would indeed be short-sighted. BUT that only stacks up if you feel that you really can trust the dealer to give a good service. The reality for me (and I suspect I'm not alone!) is that as a buyer I am terrified as to what the dealer might do to the car... now I am an Alfa Romeo owner, as are three of my friends, which means according to Mr Clarkson on "Top Gear" that we've been dealing with the "least competent most disinterested dealer network in the UK" (or similar words). That means the phenomena of cars acquiring faults while in the workshop, bodged fixes and incomplete work are just as much part of the expectation as are the higher prices.

That's why buying cheaply on the net and handing the car over to a typically more enthusiastic and knowledgable specialist indy for service can look less of a nightmare than allowing your pride and joy to be "maintained" by main dealers. The fact that Fiat is Alfa's parent - and the sagas on this forum - leave me fearing that leaving my new Fiat overnight in an abandoned inner-city multi-storey car park with the keys in the ignition might be marginally safer than giving it to the Fiat main dealer for a "service". I know this is harsh on good dealers, but fiatdownunder, their plight in the UK is not JUST down to a grasping public. In all too many cases they thoroughly deserved their extinction, and yes, the few good dealers get tainted by the rest.

In other words the cheap option should be, as you suggest, the worst, but in practice might actually be the best.. or should I say least bad. I'm in exactly that dilemma now as I contemplate the purchase of a Panda multijet... what I want is a local dealer relationship. But I fear what I might get is neglect and maybe even abuse. Yes It's worth paying a a few hundred over the odds for a good dealer relationship - but it might also be worth not paying anything extra - not to save money, but to avoid the sheer hell of a really bad dealer!!!!
B
 
alfabarry said:
Up to a point. Everyone does want the best deal they can get, and many do not weigh up the value of the deal in any way other than cost. To not use a good dealer simply in order to save a few hundred notes would indeed be short-sighted. BUT that only stacks up if you feel that you really can trust the dealer to give a good service. The reality for me (and I suspect I'm not alone!) is that as a buyer I am terrified as to what the dealer might do to the car... now I am an Alfa Romeo owner, as are three of my friends, which means according to Mr Clarkson on "Top Gear" that we've been dealing with the "least competent most disinterested dealer network in the UK" (or similar words). That means the phenomena of cars acquiring faults while in the workshop, bodged fixes and incomplete work are just as much part of the expectation as are the higher prices.

That's why buying cheaply on the net and handing the car over to a typically more enthusiastic and knowledgable specialist indy for service can look less of a nightmare than allowing your pride and joy to be "maintained" by main dealers. The fact that Fiat is Alfa's parent - and the sagas on this forum - leave me fearing that leaving my new Fiat overnight in an abandoned inner-city multi-storey car park with the keys in the ignition might be marginally safer than giving it to the Fiat main dealer for a "service". I know this is harsh on good dealers, but fiatdownunder, their plight in the UK is not JUST down to a grasping public. In all too many cases they thoroughly deserved their extinction, and yes, the few good dealers get tainted by the rest.

In other words the cheap option should be, as you suggest, the worst, but in practice might actually be the best.. or should I say least bad. I'm in exactly that dilemma now as I contemplate the purchase of a Panda multijet... what I want is a local dealer relationship. But I fear what I might get is neglect and maybe even abuse. Yes It's worth paying a a few hundred over the odds for a good dealer relationship - but it might also be worth not paying anything extra - not to save money, but to avoid the sheer hell of a really bad dealer!!!!
B
Click to expand...

I wont go on about how much i hate the net etc etc but when you buy off the net as they seem nicer than dealers, where do you take it to be serviced? you mentioned it was a better way to buy and service the car. I'm a little confused where the service is done on the net.
I have to say, i am one of a minority who sell and actually have an interest in Fiat. I think this is why i feel so strongly about this subject of internet buying as i feel it is doing Fiat no good in the long run.
However, i see it from your point of view that a lot of the dealers are cowboys and are out to rape good people of their money and then run!

Oh where do we end with all this.... haha :(
 
Why does the manufacturer allow internet companies to compete with its dealer network?
 
fiatdownunder said:
I wont go on about how much i hate the net etc etc but when you buy off the net as they seem nicer than dealers, where do you take it to be serviced? you mentioned it was a better way to buy and service the car. I'm a little confused where the service is done on the net.(
Click to expand...

One of the good things about Fiat/Alfa dealers having a reputation even worse than dealer networks in general is that there is a large shadow network of independent specialists. They can do the servicing from zero miles and providing the work is done correctly, Fiat/Alfa must still honour the pan-European two year warranty. All you lose by going down this route is the third year "UK dealer" warranty.

When I say nicer than dealers, I don't mean the internet suppliers... I mean the specialist servicing outlets. One point though: all the UK net deals I've looked at are really dealers operating in a different way, or else brokers getting the best deal from dealers. They all involve a dealer agreeing to supply a car at price far lower than they seem able to agree with the individual punter.

My friend is rueing the cost of delaying his defection to the local Alfa specialist (delayed to get that third year warranty). The main dealer discovered an alleged fault (the car was working perfectly), "repaired" it and then told him it was not covered by the warranty. He complained to Alfa and eventually got his money back. BUT in the process of rectifying the original "fault" (or dealer cash flow enhancement?) they managed to leave the car with a coolant leak which they seem utterly unable to fix. It looks like it has to go to the independent - while still "covered" by the third year warranty - simply in order to be fixed by someone who actually knows what they are doing......

I'd love to know why it is all the way that it is. Do good mechanics leave the dealers ASAP to set up their own businesses? Can the dealers only pay peanuts and thereby get monkeys? It is after all not just a Fiat/Alfa problem... most marques have similar problems. The fact that they are less well recognised problems, and perhaps because other marques generate less enthusiasm, means there's nothing like the choice of alternative support which we Italophiles appear to have. I have a choice of three highly regarded specialists within a 30 mile radius....:)
 
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