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Old 31-01-2007   #1
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Clutch Pedal problem

I have a í03 Doblo 1.9JTD. Last week the clutch pedal travel changed suddenly. Instead of the clutch master cylinder pushing the pedal completely out when foot pressure is released, the hydraulic pressure only pushes the pedal out half way and then the pedal spring pushes it out the rest of the way. The problem is felt because the spring pressure appears slightly delayed. As you take your foot off the pedal when you feel no more pressure (end of hydraulic pressure) the spring takes over and before your foot is out of the way the pedal hits the bottom of your foot.

The clutch appears to be working ok, there is no clutch slip at all, itís just annoying.

Has anyone had this problem and/or knows of the solution?
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Old 31-01-2007   #2
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

My only thoughts at this stage would be to inspect the master cylinder, which could indeed need replacing. However it's quite a strange problem!

Also, welcome to the forum
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Old 21-02-2007   #3
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

Hi,

The Clutch pedal problem got worse after about a week in the cold weather (snow).
It got to the point where I couldn’t engage reverse without crunching the gears and gear changes were difficult to say the least. I booked it into the Garage and prayed that there was not much traffic on the way there to force too many gear changes.

The diagnosis was a bent fork within the clutch housing, ouch.

When taken apart however, this was not the case. There was not one single fault. The loss of clutch pedal travel was found to be due to several reasons:

a) Clutch fork and operating arm are joined by a splined shaft. This spline was very worn and the arm had to move 10mm at the operating end before the splines engaged and rotated the clutch fork.
b) The clutch plate was worn and was close to the end of its useful life (only 31,000 miles?).
c) The tines (petal) on the clutch cover plate were worn, again increasing the clutch pedal travel.
d) Not sure about wear on trust bearing?

After the above were changed, all is well again.

It appears now that my impression that the fault came on suddenly was probably incorrect. See the sketches below. When the wear on all the clutch parts is enough the clutch pedal will travel so far as to get the pedal spring to pass its ‘knee’ point and instead of pushing the pedal back will instead tend to hold the pedal in. This is what was causing the pedal to suddenly pop back slightly delayed after being depressed and hitting my foot.

Please see the attached thumbnails below:-
The 20mm is the non hydraulic take up.
The 140mm is the hydraulic pressure movement.
These measurements were taken with the repairs done. NOT faulty.

The total bill including VAT was £441.10

Clutch plate, clutch cover plate, trust bearing……..£120.89
Actuator fork………………………………………£34.86
Actuator arm……………………………………….£9.24
Bushes……………………………………………...£2.18
Seal…………………………………………………£1.09
1litre 75/80 Synthetic oil…………………………...£4.64
6.75 hours labour…………………………………...£202.50

I hope the above may help someone in the future.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Doblo clutch pedal movement.jpg
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Size:	10.7 KB
ID:	24349  
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Last edited by Ozzie1989; 21-02-2007 at 19:20.
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Old 21-02-2007   #4
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

Thanks Timber for that valuable information. It's very strange to have your clutch go so soon, I don't think anyone else on the forum has had this problem.

What do you use the van for? What sort of driving (long/short journeys) etc.?
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Old 23-02-2007   #5
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

Hi Ozzie 1989,

The Doblo is used for a variety of short and long journeys, but mostly short, around 2 miles in length. The fewer longer journeys are 25 to 50 miles in length.

I tow a 600Kg trailer on a round journey of 25 miles, once every fortnight.

Having had more time to consider the repair, I think the most concerning part is the worn/loose spline on the actuator arm/thrust bearing fork. The 10mm loss of movement would equate to lot of movement of the pedal as you can see from the 'thumbnail sketch'. Because of the mechanical advantage of the pedal arm, 10mm on the actuator arm would probably be 60mm or more on the pedal movement.

That loss of useful pedal movement resulted in not being able to seperate the clutch plates enough for easy gear changing. The clutch was worn, but not at the very end of its life.
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Old 23-02-2007   #6
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

Towing that trailer and the short journeys has probably played a big part in wearing down the components of your clutch - however the Doblo can pull double that weight and as such should be manufactured to work beyond it's 1200kg towing capacity.

Just to confirm, is it the passenger version or the van? I would assume that the clutch and it's associated parts is the same on both so it's not really relevant.

I agree with your concerns though, and when you do get it fixed it may be worth finding out if the parts supplied are the 'good stuff' rather than cheap imitation kits otherwise you could find yourself in the same boat again but even sooner. Did the person who looked at it suggest that there could have been a manufacturing fault with that particular part or was it definitely wear and tear?

LUKHYGO
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Old 24-02-2007   #7
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

Hi
Started having a problem with my Clutch this evening seems to be the Pedal. Push it down and it feels like it's hitting something kind of crunches, is the best way I could describe it. Do it again and it's Ok car has only done 5500 miles anyone else had this Problem
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Old 25-02-2007   #8
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

Quote Originally Posted by Ozzie1989 View Post
Towing that trailer and the short journeys has probably played a big part in wearing down the components of your clutch - however the Doblo can pull double that weight and as such should be manufactured to work beyond it's 1200kg towing capacity.

Just to confirm, is it the passenger version or the van? I would assume that the clutch and it's associated parts is the same on both so it's not really relevant.

I agree with your concerns though, and when you do get it fixed it may be worth finding out if the parts supplied are the 'good stuff' rather than cheap imitation kits otherwise you could find yourself in the same boat again but even sooner. Did the person who looked at it suggest that there could have been a manufacturing fault with that particular part or was it definitely wear and tear?


LUKHYGO
Hi Ozzie 1989

The vehicle is the passenger version. The garage said they had used Fiat parts and actually let me have the old parts in the new clutch cardboard box. The clutch box had 'Valeo' as a named manufacturer on it. The garage described the wear on the spline connection as excessive and something they had not seen before. They fell short of actually describing it as a manufacturing fault. However I would call it that. They did point out that they have seen enough faulty Fiat clutchs and were expecting a fully worn out clutch. They were supprised to find that the major problem was the worn spline connection. The garage is owned by a friend.
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Old 28-03-2007   #9
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

There's more!

The Clutch pedal problem began to creep back. The 20mm non-hydraulic pedal travel began to increase over the next week. Both myself and the Garage pin-pointed the Clutch master cylinder. This was changed and all has been well for a fortnight now. I now have full hydraulic pedal travel - there is no spongyness at all.

With hindsight myself and the garage agree that the first problem was probably the worn spline on the Clutch actuator fork. This caused more pedal travel to be needed and possibly excessive foot pressure (the slave cylinder ram was touching the engine block on full travel!) which caused the master cylinder to fail. Not sure how it failed, only to say that the master cylinder body is made of plastic and there are no serviceable parts to be accessed or changed. I assume that some seals failed internally that changed its travel properties. There was never any clutch fluid leak. The lack of real clutch travel may of lead to excessive clutch plate wear due to not fully disengaging?

All is well now. Hope this info may help someone in the future.
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Old 31-03-2007   #10
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

on my two year old 40k miles doblo my driver let the clutch out never to be seen again. It went straight up under the dashboard as something snapped near the master cylinder I was told. It was done under warranty but a hair raising moment for the driver trying to find out where his clutch pedal had gone, let alone trying to stop the van in heavy traffic. An amusing moment for the RAC man though.
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Old 31-03-2007   #11
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

when i got towed in by AA he told me they had a lot of problems with clutch linkage or piston that was made of plastic snapping.
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Old 23-04-2007   #12
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

hi iv got a petrol doblo the clutch was slipping so i replaced it with a new one from fiat. its been fine for a month and now the pedals only got half the travel and its hard to get in gear. i thought it might need bleeding but cant find how to do it does anyone have any ideas

cheers Duncan!!!
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Old 12-01-2011   #13
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

Quote Originally Posted by Ozzie1989 View Post
Thanks Timber for that valuable information. It's very strange to have your clutch go so soon, I don't think anyone else on the forum has had this problem.

What do you use the van for? What sort of driving (long/short journeys) etc.?
OH im having this problem and im hoping i will find the answer soon! i can understand the frustration as sometime my doblo pulls me into traffic as i just cant get it out of gear, funny thing is that i have just had a new clutch fitted and many other parts the only thing left is the master cylinder. Heres hoping.

Ive got a 2003 1.9JTD FIAT DOBLO. the slave cylinder broke @ 37k, clutch @ 41k, alternator @ 42k ***is it time for the master cyclinder now?
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Old 12-01-2011   #14
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Re: Clutch Pedal problem

Quote Originally Posted by Scott7763725272 View Post
OH im having this problem and im hoping i will find the answer soon! i can understand the frustration as sometime my doblo pulls me into traffic as i just cant get it out of gear, funny thing is that i have just had a new clutch fitted and many other parts the only thing left is the master cylinder. Heres hoping.

Ive got a 2003 1.9JTD FIAT DOBLO. the slave cylinder broke @ 37k, clutch @ 41k, alternator @ 42k ***is it time for the master cyclinder now?
Quote Originally Posted by Timber View Post
I have a í03 Doblo 1.9JTD. Last week the clutch pedal travel changed suddenly. Instead of the clutch master cylinder pushing the pedal completely out when foot pressure is released, the hydraulic pressure only pushes the pedal out half way and then the pedal spring pushes it out the rest of the way. The problem is felt because the spring pressure appears slightly delayed. As you take your foot off the pedal when you feel no more pressure (end of hydraulic pressure) the spring takes over and before your foot is out of the way the pedal hits the bottom of your foot.

The clutch appears to be working ok, there is no clutch slip at all, itís just annoying.

Has anyone had this problem and/or knows of the solution?
IM having the EXACT same problem.
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Old 18-01-2011   #15
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Thumbs up Re: Clutch Pedal problem

Quote Originally Posted by Timber View Post
There's more!

The Clutch pedal problem began to creep back. The 20mm non-hydraulic pedal travel began to increase over the next week. Both myself and the Garage pin-pointed the Clutch master cylinder. This was changed and all has been well for a fortnight now. I now have full hydraulic pedal travel - there is no spongyness at all.

With hindsight myself and the garage agree that the first problem was probably the worn spline on the Clutch actuator fork. This caused more pedal travel to be needed and possibly excessive foot pressure (the slave cylinder ram was touching the engine block on full travel!) which caused the master cylinder to fail. Not sure how it failed, only to say that the master cylinder body is made of plastic and there are no serviceable parts to be accessed or changed. I assume that some seals failed internally that changed its travel properties. There was never any clutch fluid leak. The lack of real clutch travel may of lead to excessive clutch plate wear due to not fully disengaging?

All is well now. Hope this info may help someone in the future.

EVEN AFTER GIVING THIS FORUM PAGE TO MY MECHANIC HE STILL REPLACED THE WRONG BLOODY PART. IT QUITE CLEARLY STATES HERE PLASTIC.

god i wish pople would take more care in life.

Timber your the man.
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