Register Login
Save up to 15% with Adrian Flux insurance!
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 18-03-2006   #1
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Have got a 2002 JTD 1.9 40K miles.

On the way to the Man City match today I stalled it for the first time ever! After that it felt like the engine had been swapped for one with 1/2 the power. It's running smooth, not smoking, engine lights off, idling fine, just really down on power.

Don't know much about engines but it feels like the turbo isn't working. I'm being overtaken by all sorts - buses, trucks taxis, etc. Am really worried something serious has gone wrong. Car been serviced by Fiat since new and had no problems at all before this. Not one warranty claim!

My first idea was to get a full service done as one is just about due but any more ideas gratefully received.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

jabss is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 19-03-2006   #2
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: isle of wight
Posts: 69
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

First thing i would check,the air hoses to and from the turbo are connected properly, no loose connections etc.
__________________
Gavin
gavin is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 19-03-2006   #3
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 611
Thanks: 7
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Sounds similar to a recent problem with my wife's 2004 Doblo JTD SX. That was traced to the EGR valve not closing properly.

The symptoms were:

1. Virtually no power below 2000 rpm.
2. A huge increase in power between 2000rpm and 3000rpm.
3. Unacceptable smoke level when being 'booted'.

As well as the EGR valve being cleaned the air mass sensor was also replaced. The van is now back to its normal self.

Hope this helps. If you need a pic of the items mentioned above, to help identify them, let me know.

Cheers

Niall
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Niall_G is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 19-03-2006   #4
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Hi Gavin / Niall,

Thanks for the suggestion on the hoses. I'll check them out as soon as I find out which ones they are. You don't happen to have a diagram / picture handy do you? I'm not too mechanical but should be able to check if hoses are on or not or if they look damaged.

The EGR valve could be stuck in the 'off' position which I presume would have the effect of removing the turbo? Power ok up until the point I would expect to feel a bit of a rush but now nothing - it doesn't matter how much throttle just doesn't rev, slowly creeps up. Reminds me of a Merc van I used for removals ages ago. Do you know if this can be checked / cleaned easily? If it's straightforward I'll give it a try. Pics appreciated, can you send a link.

Was thinking of getting a service cd from ebay. Do you know if the official Fiat one is better than the unofficial ones as it costs quite a bit more? Thx.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

jabss is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 19-03-2006   #5
Doblo Moderator
 
Ozzie1989's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,929
Thanks: 6
Trader Rating: 0
Ozzie1989 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Cool Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

I believe that this is the official Fiat CD. Not bought one myself but do plan too soon. Might be worth asking the seller to make sure first though. It is more expensive than all the others but the feedback seems good. The problem with some of the cheaper ones is they are paper manuals copied to cd's and are quite hard to navigate, although probably contain some of the relevant information.

Hope this helps
__________________
No Longer a Doblo Owner
Ozzie1989 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 19-03-2006   #6
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 611
Thanks: 7
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Quote Originally Posted by jabss
The EGR valve could be stuck in the 'off' position which I presume would have the effect of removing the turbo? Power ok up until the point I would expect to feel a bit of a rush but now nothing - it doesn't matter how much throttle just doesn't rev, slowly creeps up. .
NO chap.... The EGR valve allows a small amount of gas from the exhaust back into the inlet manifold. These gases get burnt again as they pass through the engine. This is done to help clean up the exhaust emissions. The EGR valve on my wife's Doblo wasn't shutting when it should thus allowing too much exhaust gas to be recycled and messing up the mapping.

Photos: I'll take some and post them on the site....

Cheers

Niall
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Niall_G is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 19-03-2006   #7
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 611
Thanks: 7
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Hope this works ... my first attempt at putting an image in a post....



Well if it worked the image above shows the location of the pipe that carries some of the exhaust gas back into the inlet manifold. On my wifes Doblo this was getting HOT when on tickover.... I understand it shouldn't be passing gas at tickover hence the technician was able to hold it and feel it warm up..

BE VERY CAREFUL... LET THE ENGINE COOL BEFORE TOUCHING THIS.
START THE ENGINE AND FEEL IT TO SEE IF IT GETS HOT..

If it gets hot I would guess your EGR valve is the problem.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Niall_G is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 19-03-2006   #8
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 611
Thanks: 7
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Another possible cause is the air mass sensor.



Look down between the battery and the radiator. The circled connector in the picture is the cable that connects the air mass sensor to the ECU. If the air mass sensor is your problem the engine will run much better with this connector pulled off the sensor than when connected. (Don't unplug with the ignition switched on)...

Let us know how you get on.

Niall
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Niall_G is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 19-03-2006   #9
Join Date: May 2005
Location: FIX YOUR AIRBAGS
Posts: 1,723
Thanks: 104
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

EGR operates when on idle and engine warm so your technicians test does not apply. Easiest way to test if egr valve is stuck is to remove the pipe, and make a blanking plate to fit in line and then refit the pipe. If power suddenly returns then the valve is stuck in the open position.

The cd shown on ebay is a copy and not a genuine dealer cd.
__________________
"Every day, in every way, I get better and better"
NumanR is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 20-03-2006   #10
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 611
Thanks: 7
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Quote Originally Posted by NumanR
EGR operates when on idle and engine warm so your technicians test does not apply.
I bow to your greater knowledge. But if the pipe gets warm on tickover with a cold engine (as I mentioned) wouldn't that indicate an EGR valve stuck open? or am I missing something?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Niall_G is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 20-03-2006   #11
Join Date: May 2005
Location: FIX YOUR AIRBAGS
Posts: 1,723
Thanks: 104
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

The pipe will get hot regardless, due to the conductivity of the metal anyway. Egr can cause alot of problems, it seems to be the degree of gases allowed that cause the different problems. Some people just get alot of smoke, some get poor performance, and some get poor performance when hot but not when cold. If the engine doesnt smoke alot of techs check the air flow reading and see it is down and replace the airflow meter, with no improvement and then they change the egr. Best thing to do is fit the blank and its an instant confirmation of your diagnosis.
__________________
"Every day, in every way, I get better and better"
NumanR is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 20-03-2006   #12
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Hi Niall/Numan/Ozzie,

Thanks for all the suggestions and especially the pictures from Niall My engine view down that side looks a bit oilier and dirty than yours and just having had my hand down there trying to disconnect the wires proves it as they're now black. Didn't get the connector off so will have to try again in a few minutes. Seems a bit tight or maybe there's a knack of getting it off. It's now half-time at City and they're losing so I think I'll avoid the TV for a bit and carry on with this.

Have also checked all the hoses I can see and there don't seem to be any not connected or loose/damaged so that's out of the equation I think.

If I get the airflow connector off I'll see how it feels on the way to work tomorrow which is 30 miles or so and see what happens. I'm kind of getting used to driving slow now and remembering the days when I used to drive around in 2CV's. Will post again once I've tried it.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

jabss is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 21-03-2006   #13
Doblo Moderator
 
Ozzie1989's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,929
Thanks: 6
Trader Rating: 0
Ozzie1989 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Cool Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Good old 2CV eh! Lol, well I hope you get your problem sorted soon and on behalf of all of us I think I can say your very welcome! Look forward to reading how your drive went!
__________________
No Longer a Doblo Owner
Ozzie1989 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 21-03-2006   #14
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 611
Thanks: 7
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Quote Originally Posted by jabss
Didn't get the connector off so will have to try again in a few minutes. Seems a bit tight or maybe there's a knack of getting it off.
From what I remember the connector has a couple of plastic tags that need to be squeezed to get it off. Not 100% sure though. You might do well to clean the area with a cloth to get a better look and grip on the connector. Don't be tempted to pull directly on the cable.

Let us know how it goes.

PS. A JTD driven slowly is a crime against all things holy ...... Don't do it!!!!!
__________________

Niall G - BMW R1100RT & Volvo V70 2.4 Turbo.. "Because I'm worth it!"
2004 Doblo Cargo JTD SX a/c Teseo Blue-(Hers)....
450,000 Miles since 7/1/2004 and counting....Going for the Half Million!
Niall_G is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-03-2006   #15
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
Re: Being overtaken by all sorts in JTD 1.9

Hi All,

Sorry for the delay but after trying 4 times (over a couple of days) to get the connector off the air mass sensor I failed. I read another post on another thread and that guy broke some plastic bits on his getting it off so I'm being a bit careful and it just doesn't want to disconnect. Tried squeezing the sides etc. but I'm doing it wrong somehow.

Saying that some good news. No longer am I driving a 2cv. More like a Fiesta 1.1. Had a race with an oldish one today and he won! (not by much though). I gave the engine a bit of revs beforehand, 75'ish in 4th gear about 3500 rpm after it slowly crept up, to see if a bit of a clean up would help. It seems to have improved things. Still a big flat spot below 2000 rpm but after that it does start to move.

There's still something up so I reckon the sensor must be the problem. I'm going to have another go at the connector at the weekend and see how it goes.

Have also ordered the doblo cdrom on ebay as above even though it's probably a copy. I'll report on what it looks like when it arrives.


ps. Like the yellow 4x4 Niall. Just like mine, same colour but doesn't jump so high and it's got windows.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by jabss; 22-03-2006 at 23:54.
jabss is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) 1.9 JTD smoke fbarcode Marea 41 30-03-2006 17:38
(T) twin turbo 1.9 jtd stilo j0hn Stilo 4 21-01-2006 00:48
(T) Power upgrades for 1.9 JTD mars103 Punto (Mk2/2b) 20 25-10-2005 13:15
(G) Ordered new Stilo 1.9 JTD Dynamic 3 door John Shelton Stilo 11 04-01-2004 04:44