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Old 06-09-2018   #1
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Power loss

I am having trouble with my 1.9 8V Croma.

Whenever I start to ascend a hill I lose all power.

When I am on a motorway cannot get beyond 60-70 mph on the flat and then power loss when starting to climb a hill.

Seem to have lost that 'pull' when at 2-2500 rpm.

I have just stripped and cleaned the EGR and put a new air filter in which seems to have helped a bit (wishfull thinking maybe !) but still no real power increase.

Anyone got any ideas what may be happening?
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Old 06-09-2018   #2
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Re: Power loss

o Fuel Restriction / Pressure
o Failed / failing turbo
o Hose split post turbo output
o Stuck open or partially open turbo waste gate valve

would be my starting points
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Old 06-09-2018   #3
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Re: Power loss

Hi,
Do you have Multiecuscan? Without some kind of diagnostics all we can do remotely is guess. S130 has covered the more likely points.
Has anything else changed or happened recently? any funny noises? Is the car used reguarly or has it sat for a while?


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Old 06-09-2018   #4
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Re: Power loss

S130. All your suggestions sound quite terminal.

Had a turbo go on a Renault Laguna some years ago and the drop in power came with a lot of black sooty smoke from the exhaust. This doesn't feel the same - hopefully it isn't the turbo. Also it has just passed the MOT without any problems (first time ever). I would have thought the emissions would have been affected if the turbo was failing.

Don't know how to check fuel pressure, sounds like a session at my local garage.

g8rpi - I thought I was hearing a 'clacking' sound whilst on the motorway the other day but put it down to road noise. Car is used every day. I have the free version of Multiscan but as there are no management lights on so haven't connected it yet.

Thanks for your suggestions both. I will try to check the suggestions you have made the best I can before I get my garage to look it over.
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Old 06-09-2018   #5
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Re: Power loss

You have had good advice just don't overlook the fuel filter, quick to change and might highlight any other restrictions in the process.
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Old 07-09-2018   #6
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by Daveof49 View Post
S130. All your suggestions sound quite terminal.

Had a turbo go on a Renault Laguna some years ago and the drop in power came with a lot of black sooty smoke from the exhaust. This doesn't feel the same - hopefully it isn't the turbo. Also it has just passed the MOT without any problems (first time ever). I would have thought the emissions would have been affected if the turbo was failing.
Only a failed/failing turbo is going to be expensive and certainly not terminal unless the turbo vanes break off and get ingested.

You old Laguna would not have had a DPF filter like the Croma so any evidence of oil burn/soot/etc would be far more obvious.

Regarding MOT emissions then these are done on an unloaded engine (with the exception of the rev testing which is not the same a trying to push a heavy car against all the rolling and wind resistances.

Talking of DPF - A clogged DPF filter, or any obstruction in the exhaust system will seriously affect performance. I should have listed this possibility as well n my previous post. If you are not the original owner of the car then it is possible that some mods / dpf delete / ...... have been not done properly?
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Old 07-09-2018   #7
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Re: Power loss

MES is not just about fault codes.
It will tell you lot of parameters including fuel pressure, air flow turbo boost etc. Look at the "Parmeters" tab.
Lack of boost could be a stuck actuator or vacuum valve / pipe issue.


Where are you located?


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Old 07-09-2018   #8
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Re: Power loss

Thanks all for your thoughts.

Is the fuel filter easy to change? The reason I ask is that I have done a lot on petrol car engines in the past but modern diesels make me a bit wary, especially without a Haynes manual to hand.

g8rpi - I am based in south Birmingham.

Can you advise on what is the correct interface to use with MES and do I need the full paid version to read the fuel pressure? I Had some trouble connecting to the ECU last time I tried my version then it timed out.
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Old 08-09-2018   #9
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by Daveof49 View Post


<SNIP>
g8rpi - I am based in south Birmingham.

Can you advise on what is the correct interface to use with MES and do I need the full paid version to read the fuel pressure? I Had some trouble connecting to the ECU last time I tried my version then it timed out.

Hi,
A good USB ELM e27 interface is best. You don't need an adaptor or licenced version of MES to access the engine data. The "free" version will time out after 20 minutes, just re-start it.

Some of the cheap, <10 interfaces have a design problem (120 ohm resistor between pins 6 and 14) that can stop them connecting. This one works and has adaptors for ABS / Airbag etc.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Fiat-A...n/282526378637
so does
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fits-Fiat-...N/201357279123

Paying for the MES licence is a good idea in any case as it keeps updates coming.


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Old 08-09-2018   #10
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Re: Power loss

Hi Dave, top tip for anything power related is to first of all unplug the maf and see if that cures the problem.

If not plug it back and ignore the check engine warning light for now (assuming it wasn't on already of course).

Then blank the egr valve completely see if that cures the problem (again ignoring the check engine light for now).

I'll be under the bonnet of my 8v this morning and I'll double check the fuel filter removal but from memory the hardest part is unplugging the fuel leads and then very very very gently tapping the plastic retaining ring with a large flat headed screwdriver and small mallet. The ring will be brittle so whatever you do don't break it.

I'm having a lot of trouble starting mine so I'm going to check the fuel filter on mine just in case. It hasn't done a lot of miles but was parked up for a while Nd apparently biodiesel can have issues with bacterial growth (!) so might as well check that whilst I'm at it.
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Last edited by BrianMcL; 08-09-2018 at 11:23.
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Old 08-09-2018   #11
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by Daveof49 View Post
Is the fuel filter easy to change? The reason I ask is that I have done a lot on petrol car engines in the past but modern diesels make me a bit wary, especially without a Haynes manual to hand.
Basically yes but can sometimes prove difficult to get the filter canister top ring nut undone.

Anyway procedure is this:

1) Drain the filter. On the bottom of the filter is a small round tap. Place a jar underneath or attach a tube to the tap spout. If you are luck the tap spout will be covered by a yellow rubber cover with a tab on the end. Just pull off downwards and replace when you are done. I say lucky because often garages don't put the cover back.

2) You can now release the quick release fuel lines to the top of the canister. These will spill some diesel so have a clean cloth to hand. I drain excess into a jar and then tie the lines up in the air with their heads high.

3) You will note that the fuel lines are clipped to the bulkhead above the canister. You need to unclip these and move the hoses out of the way.

4) You can how lift the canister out of the metal cradle that supports and surrounds it.

5) Remove the top ring nut and list off the lid. Note filter element and 'O' ring positions.

6) Fit new filter element and do not over tighten the ring nut. Good hand tight is all the is required. Ensure drain tap is closed.

7) Put everything back and before reinserting the quick release fuel lines ensure the ends a clean and free from dirt, grit etc.

The top ring run could be the only thing that could cause you a little hassle.

Three methods I've used successfully are (assuming you don't by the proper wring nut wrench:

1) Super grip clean rubber gripper gloves (Toolstation, Screwfix)
2) Oil filter chain wrench
3) Wide flat blade screwdriver and small hammer

A decent way of holding the canister is also required. Second pair of hands, vice, workmate for 1) and 2)

For 3) a firm flat surface and second pair of hands or a vice / workmate. For 3) you use the flat blade of the screw driver located against and behind one of the ribs on the ring nut and *gently* tap the ring nut loose.

Last point. After refitting then just turn the ignition on and do not attempt to start the car. Allow the system to prime and self bleed and leave like this for a good couple of minutes whilst looking for any fuel leeks.
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Old 08-09-2018   #12
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Re: Power loss

Also there's an electrical connector on it that needs to be unclipped.
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Old 08-09-2018   #13
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by Daveof49 View Post
Thanks all for your thoughts.

Is the fuel filter easy to change? The reason I ask is that I have done a lot on petrol car engines in the past but modern diesels make me a bit wary, especially without a Haynes manual to hand.

<SNIP>

There is a special tool to open and close the fuel filter housing. Random ebay example (choose your own supplier)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-Tool...t/181880153890
Remove the housing as S130 described then use the tool to open the housing.
Using other methods like straps can damage the housing on opening nd even worse leaks on reassembly - leaks from the filter have caused fires so it's important to use the correct tool unless you are suitably skilled and prepared to take the risks of not using it.


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Old 08-09-2018   #14
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by BrianMcL View Post
Also there's an electrical connector on it that needs to be unclipped.
Yes indeed. Forgot about that. No longer have my Croma so for over 3 years have been with my 500X so some points are/will be a little rusty.
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Old 08-09-2018   #15
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Re: Power loss

Quote Originally Posted by g8rpi View Post
There is a special tool to open and close the fuel filter housing. Random ebay example (choose your own supplier)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-Tool...t/181880153890
Remove the housing as S130 described then use the tool to open the housing.
Using other methods like straps can damage the housing on opening nd even worse leaks on reassembly - leaks from the filter have caused fires so it's important to use the correct tool unless you are suitably skilled and prepared to take the risks of not using it.


Robert G8RPI.
Robert is quite correct and the right tool for the job is generally an essential approach. Other methods require extreme care/caution.

The Croma diesel filter ring nut is designed to be manually tightened and un-tightened. Sadly some (either from factory or after garage services) go beyond hand tightness removal.

On my Croma which I had for over 10 years I only had to resort to methods I mentioned, not using a proper tool, just the once. Once I had done the filter replacement and sensitively hand tightened the ring nut I could always remove it by hand at every service and never had any leak issues.

I have over the years purchased all the specialist tools for servicing my Fiats. The diesel fuel filter ring spanner is NOT one such item as in my case care, feel and sensitivity released the ring nut.

Half the issues with this ring nut is that garages use the ring nut spanner to not only undo the ring nut but also to tighten it and in doing so the monkeys over tighten an item that should be only hand tight. Hence subsequent difficulties in undoing them. Classic untrained / un-sensitive monkey wrench issues.
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