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Old 24-05-2012   #31
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Re: DPF removal!

Well I'm glad I don't grow my organic fruit and veg anywhere near an airport then.

So we all have to put up with DPFs and EGR valves while aircraft dump fuel on houses and ships burn crude oil. It's good that we're all in it together.
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Old 02-06-2012   #32
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Re: DPF removal!

Quote Originally Posted by bobbyblue View Post
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice...nges-2012.html

Be careful guys when taking of the DPF, under the new vehicle test rules in force from 2012 - see link above, it is an instant fail if a standard exhaust CAT is removed or tampered with. There are lots of other changes mainly relating to the dash board warning lamp operation
this may help with that question, taken from, http://www.longlife.co.uk/

DECATTING A DIESEL

You CAN remove the catalytic converter on your Diesel Car without having a problem with the MOT. Having taken advice from VOSA, who control MOT testing in the UK, we are 100% confident that removing the CAT on a Diesel won't cause an issue. The confusion has arisen due to the regulations changing in January 2012 for cars which qualify for a full gas emissions test where 'if a cat was fitted as standard, it must be there for the MOT'. As Diesel cars don't qualify for a full gas emissions test, the regulation doesn't apply. The same is true for DPFs which you can also remove (they're not even mentioned in the manual)

Anyone can download the MOT testers manual HERE (you'll want the one for Class 3, 4, 5 and 7) and have a look. The part that deals with exhausts is Part 7.1 on page 157 (yes we've looked at this a lot!)

Obviously things can change but two inspectors from VOSA have both given the same information and said that nothing is going to change in the near future. If things do change then we'll be the first to let you know.

Information correct as of April 2012
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Old 02-06-2012   #33
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Re: DPF removal!

I too spoke directly to VOSA about CAT/DPF removal.

Basically there is no testing criteria for DPF presence. Standard smoke test for particulate pollution is the requirement.

From a ECO sensitive and insurance point of view then if you have a DPF and it is working fine, etc. etc. then I would leave it in place. Yes the MPG is reduced but removing a DPF filter and updating the ECU software is a vehicle modification as far as hehicle insurance is concerned. You IMHO should declare this to your insurance company to be legally fully insured. I don't want you anywhere near me if you have done the mods and not notified and got insurance from your insurance company!

Sceptical? Trust me. I went into great detail when I was doing Motor Sport, sprinting, etc. in our road cars. Simple required RAC MSA stuff like yellow tape on the -ve battery lead, ignition on/off direction labels, etc. technically count as a reporatable insurance modification IF they are present on your vehicle on a public road.

I used to see competitors taping up on track arrival and removing prior to departure.

Just please be carefull. Look beyond the mods to the possible legal implications. You don't want to be paying damages for the rest of your life should you be the cause of an accident and then find yourself uninsured due to a stupid bit of sticky tape.
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Old 02-06-2012   #34
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Re: DPF removal!

Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
I too spoke directly to VOSA about CAT/DPF removal.

Basically there is no testing criteria for DPF presence. Standard smoke test for particulate pollution is the requirement.

From a ECO sensitive and insurance point of view then if you have a DPF and it is working fine, etc. etc. then I would leave it in place. Yes the MPG is reduced but removing a DPF filter and updating the ECU software is a vehicle modification as far as hehicle insurance is concerned. You IMHO should declare this to your insurance company to be legally fully insured. I don't want you anywhere near me if you have done the mods and not notified and got insurance from your insurance company!

Sceptical? Trust me. I went into great detail when I was doing Motor Sport, sprinting, etc. in our road cars. Simple required RAC MSA stuff like yellow tape on the -ve battery lead, ignition on/off direction labels, etc. technically count as a reporatable insurance modification IF they are present on your vehicle on a public road.

I used to see competitors taping up on track arrival and removing prior to departure.

Just please be carefull. Look beyond the mods to the possible legal implications. You don't want to be paying damages for the rest of your life should you be the cause of an accident and then find yourself uninsured due to a stupid bit of sticky tape.
already done and arranged..ex military Police with class 1 licence so know about road traffic laws and modification implications within the remits of the insurance industry. chill
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Old 04-06-2012   #35
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Re: DPF removal!

Quote Originally Posted by Roadhoguk View Post
already done and arranged..ex military Police with class 1 licence so know about road traffic laws and modification implications within the remits of the insurance industry. chill
Does this mean you've declared it to your insurers, or you don't think you have to?
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Old 04-06-2012   #36
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Re: DPF removal!

lol, already declared, sorry if my reply seemed a bit arrogant but i took the,

Quote Quote:
You IMHO should declare this to your insurance company to be legally fully insured. I don't want you anywhere near me if you have done the mods and not notified and got insurance from your insurance company!
as a bit of an insult as well as making an unjust assumption as to my knowledge of a vehicle modification and an attack on my integrity as a road user.
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Old 05-06-2012   #37
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Re: DPF removal!

Hi Roadhouk.

No offense or insult meant and no way was I suggesting that you planned not disclose your proposed mods.

Please accept my appologies if it "came over wrong".

In my partial defense I would say that I, you and others know how many "unisured mods" go onto cars here in the UK and no matter how many times we try to educate people the message never gets through.

I would be professionally negligent if I talked/advised etc. on modifications and did not also point out the legal situation.

Possibly what we need on this forum is a "Legal / Insurance Sticky" that clearly explains the facts and which we can "cover" our posts/ourselves on mods etc. we may be discussing.
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Old 05-06-2012   #38
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Re: DPF removal!

Thanks S130, I run 2 forums and have found there is a massive scope for the written / typed syntax to be taken the wrong way, so you have my apologies as well for the misunderstanding, and yes I agree there are an awful lot of vehicles that have been modified without notification to the insurance provider, the vast majority of which are invisible until something happens that warrants an inspection.

Quote Quote:
Possibly what we need on this forum is a "Legal / Insurance Sticky" that clearly explains the facts and which we can "cover" our posts/ourselves on mods etc. we may be discussing.
Good idea TBH, it may well steer someone into making the correct decision to inform their insurance company.
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Old 05-06-2012   #39
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Re: DPF removal!

Problem is as a 'responsible' forum we can only advise. How many times has airbag advice been ignored only for people to cut and alter airbag wiring then bragging on the forum it has put the light out! Big deal, so someone copies it and has an accident and no airbag detonates, insurance company investigates and finds altered wiring no payout and huge lawsuit
Years ago yes it was seemed acceptable (renault, citroen air bag wiring soldered etc) but these days everyone is looking for a fall guy and dont expect your employer to cover your ar*e.

DPF is obviously not in same category as air bags however technically you are altering the homologation (think thats how you spell it) of the vehicle giving the manufacture and insurer a get out cause if required. With the ever changing law(s) I would think the best option would be to contact the insurer in question and not refer to a forum although threads like this are very helpful and a good general guide.

Roadhoguk, out of interest these modifications you declared, was there a substantial rise in premiums? I ask because (and I am well over 40 with 10+ years NCD) I was recently charged an extra 35 for alloy wheels which although non-standard on that vehicle but were on the next up in therange and were non aftermarket alloys, seemed a bitsteep?
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Old 05-06-2012   #40
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Re: DPF removal!

Quote Quote:
was there a substantial rise in premiums
Not for me personally no, but then i personally have 33 years of motoring with a full licence and only one claim (2007 Herefordshire floods swept away my car ) and advanced licences but i will wait until I have that in writing , usually it`s the person you speak to, sometimes they are ok and sometimes they are Muppets without a clue so add on ad hoc numbers, if in doubt its always best to shop around.
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Old 06-06-2012   #41
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Re: DPF removal!

I wanted to add a lower front strut brace to a previous car as it had a big, heavy engine and it was flexing way too much. I'm no racing driver, but appreciate tidy handling. Mine was the "posh" model in the range, and the part I wanted to fit was an OEM part that is fitted to the "sporty" model as standard. It has no detrimental effect on handling, just stops the body flexing.

The premium hike was huge so I didn't bother. They boil all mods down into one or another category. In my case they said it was a suspension mod so would be counted the same as lowering and stiffening. I attempted to argue that it wouldn't make the car faster, but he said that they see it as a risk that I obviously felt the need to go fast round corners.

I wonder whether a DPF mod would tick the same "exhaust" box as a pimped up megaloud replacement exhaust and hike the premium accordingly.
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Old 30-06-2012   #42
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Re: DPF removal!

Well I just asked my current insurers (Chaucer Direct) and AXA about insuring a Croma with the DPF removed and the associated ECU map changed and both said they would NOT insure the car (or any car that was not standard engineering build). Towbars, optional/OEM alloy wheel upgrades etc. were still OK.

Looking on the Alfa forum people are getting a 20% minimum premium hike for this mod.

Sadly I don't do the daily miles/duration drives that help to keep a DPF happy and healthy and despite my annual 3000 mile (400-500 mile per day) trips to Italy I'm getting quite nervous about the DPF throwing a wobbly, probably at the same time as the exhust system requires reaplcing (car is now 56k miles and 6 years old).

With higher UK diesel fuel costs, reduce mileage and associated potential DPF problems and a 20%+ increase in insurance premium for DPF mods is making, for me, a modern diesel engined car an expensive item/risk/liability.

What really pisses me off is that since 2005/2006 low ash/soot/sulpher diesel fuel availability have increased and improved massively thus significanlty reducing the need for DPF. So DPF (which reduces MPG and thus increase polution) is becoming more of a burden and thus fuels (excuse the pun) the petrol heads/desireability.

For me it is looking very likely that modern diesel is not an option.

What would / will I miss about a diesel engined car?

The used engine oil. Seriously it is the best fence and shed treatment fluid you can get. PERIOD. Soaks in exceptionally well. After a few days is dry and clean to surface touch. Gives a lovely deep dark tan finish and actually shows and higlights the wood grain and patterns. Above all is one of the classic and most cost effective recycle/reuse items you have at your personal disposal. ZERO POUND PER LITRE! Also any graffiti on a used diesel, even petrol, oil treated fence is easily cleaned.
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Old 01-07-2012   #43
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Re: DPF removal!

That confirms my suspicion about exhaust/ECU mods and insurers, and probably explains why many don't bother telling them and cross their fingers. I guess they're unlikely to notice if they ever need to look at it (e.g. a claim), whereas lowering, spoilers etc would be obvious and would probably mean they'd refuse cover (followed by a conviction for driving without insurance).

Ours is mainly used for short-ish journeys - about a 20 min gentle drive on mainly motorway in 6th gear. However, when the exhaust flexi was leaking we could, for the first time, actually tell when it was doing it - due to the puff of stinking smoke out of the front wheel arches.

Ours seems to work fine even with short journeys. I've also had a look at the blockage and regen times a few times using fiatecuscan and all seems to be well.

So I used to worry about it, but I think it's safe (for us anyway) to forget about it and leave it to do its thing.

I did read about used engine oil and fences years ago. I think it's normally mixed with creosote to enrich it. It'll certainly preserve it, but I'd worry about my fruit trees and veggies that are surrounded by fencing. I find the modern water-based stuff works surprisingly well.
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Old 01-07-2012   #44
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Re: DPF removal!

Quote Originally Posted by Doofer View Post
I did read about used engine oil and fences years ago. I think it's normally mixed with creosote to enrich it. It'll certainly preserve it, but I'd worry about my fruit trees and veggies that are surrounded by fencing. I find the modern water-based stuff works surprisingly well.
IMHO nothing to worry about. Unless you go mad, over paint and spill loads of oil all over the place then the wood sucks the oil in and retains it. Weather/water just glides off and does not drag absorbed oil with it.

The old mixing of creoste (a dark tan fluid) would give old petrol engine oil the "deeper" staining colour people desrired. Used diesel oil has all the deep colour one could want.

Nick
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Last edited by s130; 01-07-2012 at 22:16.
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Old 03-07-2012   #45
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Re: DPF removal!

I love how this forum drifts from one topic to another!

I'd say it must end up in the soil, otherwise it would last for ever. Perhaps a percentage of the oil evaporates or breaks down, but some oil and the particulate gunk must eventually wash down into the soil. Whether it does any harm is another matter, but I'd prefer not to eat it.
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