Hello peeps,

Just got a 900cc M-reg Cinquecento, don't have a haynes manual yet but got no oil! What oil should i put in it ?

Cheers

pretty sure that it is 10/40. you can get good quality semi-synthetic oils for cheap prices these days. i've been told that the fiat small engine don't like fully synthetic oils.

if its burning a little bit of oil use 10w40, but if it isnt use the preformance stuff, which is 10w45. Hope this helps. Dan (logging in as sam! lol)

Hmm, it's 15W40, but I'm using 10W40 at the moment.

The Ugly Duckling said:

Hmm, it's 15W40, but I'm using 10W40 at the moment.

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The recomended grade is a 10w-40, you can use a semi or full synthetic if you want.

If you wanted a full synthetic then a 10w-40 or 5w-40 would suit.

Cheers

Guy.

oilman said:

The recomended grade is a 10w-40, you can use a semi or full synthetic if you want.

If you wanted a full synthetic then a 10w-40 or 5w-40 would suit.

Cheers

Guy.

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What? We've had this descussion before and we decided that it was 15W40!

15w40 is Fiat's recommendation, 5w oil tends to leak from the hit n'miss seal arrangements.

fixitagaintomorrow said:

15w40 is Fiat's recommendation, 5w oil tends to leak from the hit n'miss seal arrangements.

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"hit n'miss seal arrangements"

ROFL!

The Ugly Duckling said:

What? We've had this descussion before and we decided that it was 15W40!

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When hot the 15w-40 is exactly the same as the 10w-40, so the only difference is when cold, 80% of engine wear occurs at start up, to help protect on start up you use a thinner oil when cold to circulate around the engine quicker, so a 10w-40 will provide better cold start protection then a 15w-40.

Remember manufacturers only recomend the MINIMUM spec oil to be used.

Cheers

Guy.

That's why I always use Castrol RS 10W-60, great oil especially in turbos

Hi,
My 94 899cc cinq doesn't like the 10w40(Semi), very rattly on start up and wet rocker gasket etc, changed to 15w50 with a great improvement, engine is a lot quieter.
As Fixitagaintomorrow said, the sealing tolerances on the push rod engines are not quite up to modern standards, as are the bearing tolerances I think, results in leaks and rattles....

Thanks
Paul T

J333EVO said:

That's why I always use Castrol RS 10W-60, great oil especially in turbos

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Yes Turbos do like the thicker oil, due to the extra temps, however the Castrol RS 10w-60 is over kill, when hot it is as thick as some gear oils, taking energy from the engine to pump it around, and it is not a full synthetic like it says on the tin, yet costs full synthetic prices.

Read on.....

Surely the thicker the oil the better!

This isn't always true - even when using a petroleum oil. Although it is true that heavier viscosity oils (which are generally thought of as being thicker) will hold up better under heavy loads and high temperatures, this doesn't necessarily make them a better choice for all applications.
On many newer vehicles only 0w-40, 5w40 or 10w40 engine oils are recommended by the manufacturer. If you choose to use a higher viscosity oil than what is recommended, at the very least you are likely to reduce performance of the engine. Fuel economy will likely go down and engine performance will drop.
In the winter months it is highly recommended that you not use a heavier grade oil than what is recommended by the manufacturer. In cold start conditions you could very well be causing more engine wear than when using a lighter viscosity oil. In the summer months, going to a heavier grade is less of an issue, but there are still some things to be aware of.

Moving one grade up from the recommended viscosity is not likely to cause any problems (say from a 10w40 to a 10w50 oil). The differences in pumping and flow resitance will be slight. Although, efficiency of the engine will decrease, the oil will likely still flow adequately through the engine to maintain proper protection. However, it will not likely protect any better than the lighter weight oil recommended by the manufacturer.
Moving two grades up from the recommended viscosity (say 10w40 to 10w-60) is a little more extreme and could cause long term engine damage if not short term. Although the oil will still probably flow ok through the engine, it is a heavier visocosity oil. As such it will be more difficult to pump the oil through the engine. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction means more heat. In other words, by going to a thicker oil in the summer months, you may actually be causing more heat build-up within the engine. You'll still be providing adequate protection from metal to metal contact in the engine by going with a high viscosity, but the higher viscosity will raise engine temperatures.
In the short run, this is no big deal. However, over the long term, when engine components are run at higher temperatures, they WILL wear out more quickly. As such, if you intend on keeping the vehicle for awhile, keep this in mind if you're considering using a heavier weight oil than the manufacturer recommends.
The best advice is to is to stay away from viscosity grades that are not mentioned in your owner's manual.

Cheers

Guy.

What's wrong with using Selinia?

Guzzi Steve said:

What's wrong with using Selinia?

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There is nothing wrong with using Selinia!! depends what grade in what car in which climate.

Cheers

Guy.

Guzzi Steve said:

What's wrong with using Selinia?

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The price :yuck:

It's probably reasonable stuff, but you can get reasonable oil for around half the price.

I made an interesting descovery today! The book that came with my Fiat says that Selenia oil is 15W40, but the Selenia stuff they sell is actually 10W40. Did they change the grade a while ago or something?

I've got 10W40 at the moment, and it seems to be burning a little oil. When I had the 15W40 the oil level seemed to remain constant though. After I've used up all of the 10W40 I think I'll give the 15W40 another try!

Woo slow down there Oilman, thats some pretty libellous stuff your saying there, I don't have a bottle to hand but if a product sold in the UK doesn't match the description, then it's breaking the law as set down by the Trades Description act as amended 1988 (I think from my retail days) therefore if it says synthetic it is synthetic no argument, unless you want to prove otherwise and then confront Castrol with it in a court of law.

I have ran for many many years high temperature turbo cars both on track and as every day cars, and without a shadow of a doubt I have never suffered any problems with using a 10W-60 oil, (unlike Mobil 1 when I didn't know any better many years ago and it all slipped past my oil seals in the turbo nicely and burnt away as it was too thin) it is the grade recommended by all integrale enthusiasts, as it is by Subaru, Cosworth, Mitsubishi and Renault Turbo owners, thats a wealth of experience that has been built up over time by many users.

Selenia 20K is a quality oil as well.

Aaron.

Aaron,

I see what you are saying.

Castrol have already been to court over this.

Read on....

Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years.

Quote:

Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions. We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!

Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”? Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”. Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.

So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!

The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil. This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!

UNQUOTE:

This article is something that all car owners should read and understand before buying oil and I’ve posted this with Johns permission.

For your imformation the Castrol RS 10w-60 is made from Group III base stock.

A true synthetic is group IV and group V.

You can read more on the court case by doing a google search.

Cheers

Guy.

Makes some good reading that, tho I still say its a good oil all the same, even if it was made from whale blubber

My head hurts :bang:

The key to all of this labelling is the types of basestocks used.

Hopefully this explains in laymans terms:

Basestock categories and descriptions

All oils are comprised of basestocks and additives. Basestocks make up the majority of the finished product and represent between 75-95%.

Not all basestocks are derived from petroleum, in fact the better quality ones are synthetics made in laboratories by chemists specifically designed for the application for which they are intended.

Basestocks are classified in 5 Groups as follows:

Group I

These are derived from petroleum and are the least refined. These are used in a small amount of automotive oils where the applications are not demanding.

Group II

These are derived from petroleum and are mainly used in mineral automotive oils. Their performance is acceptable with regards to wear, thermal stability and oxidation stability but not so good at lower temperatures.

Group III

These are derived from petroleum but are the most refined of the mineral oil basestocks. They are not chemically engineered like synthetics but offer the highest level of performance of all the petroleum basestocks. They are also known as “hydrocracked” or “molecularly modified” basestocks.
They are usually labelled/marketed as synthetic or semi-synthetic oils and make up a very high percentage of the oils retailed today.

Group IV

These are polyalphaolefins known as PAO and are chemically manufactured rather than being dug out of the ground. These basestocks have excellent stability in both hot and cold temperatures and give superior protection due to their uniform molecules.

Group V

These special basestocks are also chemically engineered but are not PAO.
The main types used in automotive oils are diesters and polyolesters. Like the group IV basestocks they have uniform molecules and give superior performance and protection over petroleum basestocks. These special stocks are used in all aviation engines due to their stability and durability. Esters are also polar (electro statically attracted to metal surfaces) which has great benefits. They are usually blended with Group IV stocks rather than being used exclusively.

It is common practice for oil companies to blend different basestocks to achieve a certain specification, performance or cost. The blending of group IV and V produces lubricants with the best overall performance which cannot be matched by any of the petroleum basestock groups.

It's your car and money when all is said and done!

Cheers
Guy