What are the Bravo JTD's like when mapped to 150bhp, quite fancy one as a main car. I know performance won't be far off an HGT but it's also the torque i'm wanting as well as the mpg.

you cant really compare performance using bhp or lb/ft figures. if you have 2 bravos, say a 150bhp turbo diesel and a 150bhp petrol N/A, the petrol would be expected to leave the diesel in a race if the gearing and rev range is used correctly. this is always the case when comparing turbo diesels and petrols. the limited rev range of the diesel doesnt help. the main advantage of having the diesel is it will pull well at low rpm, so when driving you dont have to change down to get decent acceleration (e.g. to overtake). basically you can get it shifting easily without having to kill it, so driving fast can be less frantic and doesnt feel like you're abusing the engine. the torque also means there is little difference in performance when you have extra weight such as passengers or when going up hill. if you think a remapped JTD @ 150bhp could compete with an HGT, you will be disappointed. but! it will be faster than a 1.8hlx, and it will be cheaper to run, and diesels usually handle a remap well, meaning they dont die after a while. the excess strain on the engine internals is usually taken happily, so long term its a more sensible option for remapping. the only problem is clutches.

given a choice between my car (1.8HLX) and a remapped JTD HLX, i'd take the JTD (unless i wanted to race chavs on country roads, a petrol is always better for that), but given the choice between a remapped JTD HLX and an HGT, i'd have to take the HGT. dont think of a remapped JTD HLX and a diesel equivalent of the HGT. figures cant be used to compare performance on a diesel and petrol.

Do you know mate I could not agree with you more on your comment between diesel and petrol. You obviously know your stuff
It ties up what I have experienced on the road.

If you do a lot of motorway/dual carriageway driving a diesel can be a godsend. They will cruise at 1500-2000rpm easily so there is less engine noise. Overtaking is as easy as pushing the accelerator and steering around the obstacle! The Bravo on a big map (150bhp) sounds insane. Often too much power for the clutch. Almost always budget a replacement clutch into your remap.

Are there any uprated clutches for the Bravo? Have not heard of any. Or are the Valeo ones up to the job? Changing a clutch should be ok for my mechanical ability.

i searched all over for one when someone was looking for a better clutch a few months ago, i even asked at a couple of motor factors. no 'performance' or 'uprated' clutch kit was available that i could find. shame

valeo make great stuff, but when designing a clutch all manufacturers will assume the clutch is going to be used on a standard car, so they wont take into consideration the massive gains you can achieve when remapping a TD. a new clutch will probably not slip at all, but for how long?

jug said:

i searched all over for one when someone was looking for a better clutch a few months ago, i even asked at a couple of motor factors. no 'performance' or 'uprated' clutch kit was available that i could find. shame

valeo make great stuff, but when designing a clutch all manufacturers will assume the clutch is going to be used on a standard car, so they wont take into consideration the massive gains you can achieve when remapping a TD. a new clutch will probably not slip at all, but for how long?

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Probably longer than the car lasts. If driven properly (i.e. no riding the clutch at lights etc) it should last several years.

Tis good to know

I think a similiarly powered turbo diesel (compared to a similiarly powered petrol) will always 'feel' quicker. The shove you get once the turbo kicks in is awesome. But petrols are always more fun to drive because you can rev them.

I drive my diesel two ways. When its in 'stock' mode, I use all the torque low down the revs and drive it lazily. Which isnt that much fun to be honest.

When I put it in silly mode (re-mapped) I have to drive it like a petrol and use all the power higher up the revs where it does keep pulling -hard-. This is loads more fun.

I dont think you'd be disappointed with a remapped JTD. It would be good to see the difference between this and a HGT

well mark thinks his JTD would be faster than mine, but doesnt think he would keep up with alex' cinq turbo....

Alex thinks my 20v would beat his cinq turbo....

go figure!

well now ive just picked up my hgt all i can say is oh and i will be finding out just how a remapped jtd bravo (150 map) and a lightly tuned hgt will go early ish next year im looking forward to it after all his silly buggery while i was driving Patch time to show him petrols are best, end of :devil:

ryan, the marea felt plenty quicker than my remaped jtd. and defo quicker than my Uno Turbos too.

problem with the Punto JTD is you need to change gear at 4500rpm to get the best out of it. at this point, your still in 1st. Youve also got a much longer 2nd gear too and that pulls plenty as well.

TBH, i dont think ude have any problem getting away from a punto JTD. 155hp 2.0 20v vs 130hp 1.9 JTD doesnt really compare...

Only reason I assumed the UT would be quicker is that im comparing your marea to my mums rover 600. 16v 2.0L. approx same sizish cars, assumed about the same weight etc and probs fairly similar performance... only reason i disagree now is that the brava is quicker than the rover

To add to this In my 20v coupe which feels identical speed wise to my HGT (in fact on paper the HGT is quicker to 60) I have had run-ins with both a BMW 1 series 120diesel which has the following stats,

Max power (bhp/rpm) 161/4000
kerb weight (kg) 1,415
0-60 mph (secs) 7.9
Max speed (mph) 137

and a Seat ibiza Tdi 130 which has the following stats,

Max power (bhp/rpm) 128/4000
Kerb weight (kg) 1,180
0-60 mph (secs) 9.3
Max speed (mph) 129


Against the the Bmw I was struggling in 2nd gear and initially in 3rd. I could not shake him although he could not reel me in. Side by side in a drag I feel the Bmw would have pulled ahead by a bonnet length up to 60mph as I suspect his torque if he'd had chance to use 1st and 2nd would have allowed this. Once however I was over 4k in 3rd I began to slowly pull away this was followed in 4th and 5th where I kept pulling away. basically on the road we were equal up to 70mph.

Against the Seat, it was out gunned and I had noticably more speed and acceleration. Again the only time it gave me a run, although I was still able to reel it in was in the lower gears but by the time I hit 4k revs I was bearing down on it very fast.

To conclude, I feel the diesels with there torque are great at accelerating from nothing where the 20v (petrol) engines need to get there revs up. However once on song the 20v's will pull away. What suprised me though in both cases was the petrols far better mid range punch.

The only thought I had after the run with the BMW was that my fuel gauge had probably dropped far more than his

Would still be keen on a mapped diesel, more for the economy without compromising decent power.

Andy_sx said:

well now ive just picked up my hgt all i can say is oh and i will be finding out just how a remapped jtd bravo (150 map) and a lightly tuned hgt will go early ish next year im looking forward to it after all his silly buggery while i was driving Patch time to show him petrols are best, end of :devil:

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Hi Andy,

Just wanted to find out how the remapped JTD did against the HGT? I'm looking around to buy a bravo JTD and I'm undecided whether to get a remap on it. Whats your opinion?

Thanks

Ben

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Depends how many miles your Bravo will have done and how it's clutch is. I'd say a remap is a must for any JTD for ecconomy and power - but it's just working out if the clutch will take it.. or if your wallet will take a new clutch on top of the remap

Is there any other parts that you would have to take into consideration before a remap? Hopefully I should be able to afford a JTD with around 70-90000 miles on it, and then maybe a remap.

:slayer:

Regular oil/air changes with decent fully synthetic oil and no 'Tesco's Value' filter elements!

You'll probably find yourself going through brake pads and discs quicker too.

benjipcane_no said:

Hi Andy,

Just wanted to find out how the remapped JTD did against the HGT? I'm looking around to buy a bravo JTD and I'm undecided whether to get a remap on it. Whats your opinion?

Thanks

Ben

:worship: :worship: :worship:

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the HGT found its way into a ditch lol twas a sad day

Lol, really sorry to hear that. Do you know the 0-60 time for the mapped JTD?