hello there as i have realised by spending time on here the 1.4 engine is ****E!!! and am just wondering whether the 1.2 16v would drop straight in? because if i was to have quite a costy problem with my 1.4 this is what id be looking to do and + the fuel consumption on the 1.4 is diabolical!!!!

It would fit, but then you'd need all the wiring doing etc etc. Much more cost effective to sell your car and buy a 1.2.

:yeahthat:

sell your car and buy a 1.2, then you get the better engine but also a newer car (mk2). the extra it costs you will be equal to or less than the cost of fitting a 1.2 to your car, so fitting the 1.2 is pointless.

JoskeJTD said:

It would fit, but then you'd need all the wiring doing etc etc. Much more cost effective to sell your car and buy a 1.2.

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what do you mean joske all the wiring doing does it have a different loom and what would this consist of to change the wiring. im really happy with my car not even too botherd about the engine just would like the 1.2 engine if myn messed up.

there are several wiring differences, and most connectors need to be replaced. how you deal with these differences is critical. you need to compare wiring diagrams to see what differences there are in the sensors and actuators, then you need to compare the different positions between common parts, then you can make a table that details all the new wires you need to add (where and why) and what connectors they need; and all the current wires you need to modify or relocate (again where and why) and what connectos they need; and then the colour of all the wires you need to join together (again noting where and why). you would need to chop the original ecu connector off and attach the 1.2 ecu connector. the alternative is to remove your wiring loom and fit the complete 1.2 loom. either way its a nightmare and the main reason conversions cost so much money if you cant do this stage yourself.

just drop a 1.6 in. i did it for the same reason. and its straight in, just need to replace the immobilizer etc. if u get a cheap 1.6 for spares or repairs then just take the engine out. its worth it if u do it that way

Shaun did all the wiring fit during the engine swap. I.e was the loom the same in a 1.4 as a 1.6 or did it need altering? Did you fit the 1.6, connect the 1.6 ECU and then connect the same cable and start the car???

there are a lot of differences between the 1.4 and 1.6, a quick look at the engine management diagrams in the workshop manual shows you that it would require a major loom modification to fit the 1.6. for example the 1.6 has a MAP and the ecu is in a completely different place. those 2 differences would add several hours to the conversion, especially the ecu relocation, when that is needed you always take the loom swapping option.

nope..its all good. take the 1.4 out, move all the stuff liek air box, water bottle, ecu etc. and engine in. fit without a problem well if i missed something i would know but its was all pretty simple. i will be doing another one soon.

ShaunCo said:

nope..its all good. take the 1.4 out, move all the stuff liek air box, water bottle, ecu etc. and engine in. fit without a problem well if i missed something i would know but its was all pretty simple. i will be doing another one soon.

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does that mean the 1.2 will go in the 1.4 with not much work then?

so i dont understand we have two different opinions here would it be easier to drop the 1.2 in or the 1.6 and is what shaun saying correct about 1.4 out 1.6 in? cheers.

gfourh said:

so i dont understand we have two different opinions here would it be easier to drop the 1.2 in or the 1.6 and is what shaun saying correct about 1.4 out 1.6 in? cheers.

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well the 1.2 is a mk2...and i the 1.4 is the mk1...there fore the wiring will be different. but if u can pick up a cheap 1.6 mk1 (iv seen some for £300) then just strip ur engine bay and rebuild is as u take the other one apart. then swap ur immobilizer and ur off....iv had mine done for a good 9 months with no problems at all. was pretty easy to do.

ShaunCo said:

well the 1.2 is a mk2...and i the 1.4 is the mk1...there fore the wiring will be different.

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the 1.6 and 1.4 are just as different, its not the case that all mk1 models are the same or even similar. fitting a mk1 1.6 or a mk2 1.2 would be equally difficult since they have almost equal differences.

there is no way you could drop a 1.6 engine into a 1.4 and just connect it up. 90% of the connectors are different and the wiring is in different positions. at the very least you would need to install the 1.6 loom and gearbox as well, then it would connect up easily enough.

:yeahthat: its bad enough trying to fit a mark1 1.6 into a mark 2 1.6 (or vice versa) never mind anything else

I'd have to agree with Jug here aswell.

Shaun explain in detail what you did. To everyone here it sounds like you pulled one out and put the other in and way you go. Did you use the 1.6 loom or not?

well basically, this is the engine as it stood in the other car:

then this a a standard 1.4 engine bay (not mine but this is how it looked):

then i striped it out:

and this is it now:


as u can see, it all went in pretty simple. had to change the gas cable and the rest had its own place.

the only real change was the black box that needed alittle metal piece:


and thats it. wiring loom was all there. the plug is the same....everything was simple.

Hmm, fair enough!

ShaunCo said:

wiring loom was all there. the plug is the same....everything was simple.

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i really hate to be a pedantic swine but i dont believe it was a "simple" case of connecting things up, and to save someone else the hassle of finding out the hard way i will demonstrate why i know you are fibbing when you say "wiring loom was all there. the plug is the same....everything was simple"

looking at the pic of the 1.6 engine on the floor i can clearly see the connectors and a few inches of their wires have been left on the engine.

for example, in the pic of the 1.6 on the floor the air temp sensor clearly has a few inches of wire and the brown connector still attached. same for the MAP, you can see its wire hanging off the manifold.

on the 1.4 the temp sensor's connector is different (check workshop manual if in doubt, 1.4 has a 4pin connector and 1.6 has a 2pin connector) so you could not have used it, you must have fitted the 1.6 connector to the 1.4 loom, and you must have firstly determined which of the 4 wire you needed to use by examining a wiring diagram of the engine management system. also, a MAP isnt even fitted on the 1.4 engine so you cant use wires that do not exist.

obviously you used the 1.6 connectors for all sensors, and spliced into the 1.4 loom, removing the 1.4 connectors in the process. it is important that anyone considering this converison is aware of that fact, and are not led to believe it is a simple case of connecting the 1.6 engine to the 1.4 loom.

i assume this connector replacement method was used for all instances where the connector is different (which the fiat workshop manual shows is almost all sensors), and the wiring was re-routed to suit the different positions. for situations where no wiring was availalbe surely you must have fitted the wiring, for example the MAP needed its wiring fitted and joining to the ecu connector.

i do not mean to offend you or make you look like a fibber, but i feel it is important that people understand what is required to do this conversion so they can plan how they will do it. it is not fair to mislead people, what happens when we get a reply to this thread in 6 months time and someone is saying "please help, my connectors are different" and then i have to tell them that they should have taken the connectors when they got the engine, and now they must go back and get them. they will say to me "but this thread told me the connectors were the same". that is the only reason i have wirtten this reply.

i personally believe your car was never a 1.4. all the pics show your car with a 1.6 engine, either fitted or removed, so i believe those pics are from a like for like replacement of the 1.6 engine. i do not make such accusations freely, but there are also some very good clues in the pics that it was originally a 1.6 (prize goes to anyone else who can spot them). a like for like replacement is as you describe it; "simple". are you sure you are not confusing a 1.4 to 1.6 conversion with a 1.6 to 1.6 replacement?

right....that picture with the engine on the floor, that car next to it, is infact the original 1.6 which i got the engine out off.

i dont actually have any pictures of me doing the conversion.

i didnt change the wiring loom.

i did change the exhaust, i did change the steering rack, i did change the ecu, i did change the air filter box and the screen wash.

but if we look at this picture:



notice where the brake fluid is??

then look at mine...where is mine:



same place??

and then look at the original 1.6...where is that brake fluid??





need anymore???

take my reg...r399 htc, do a check and tell em what u come up with, the fact that my car does state its a 1.4 sx, and under cc it should say 1581 cc


this is from the we buy any car website

R399HTC - RED FIAT BRAVO HATCHBACK 1.4 SX 3dr (1995 - 1999 Model) Manual 1581cc

and i can assure u my car has been a 1.4 till the day i put that new engine in.

the car has been in my family for over 3 years. never has it had an engine change.



erm...so ner :slayer:

oh and forgot to mention...im not an idiot and i can not mistake an embarising 1.4 for a 1.6....and i was working with someone who knows more about engines and has done more engines than uv had ****s.

iv always respected u jug, and liked what uv said on this forum...but now ur just basically asking to annoy a very angry forigner

not meanign to offend u obviously!