Ok, I'm so close now to ordering but just want people's real world experiences of the diesel for its economy, drivability, noise etc compared to the Twinair. I was 99.9% set on the Twinair but now I'm having doubts

All help gratefully received

Don't forget about the 1.2 petrol.
If I were to buy again I would get that engine again.

RUI said:

Don't forget about the 1.2 petrol.
If I were to buy again I would get that engine again.

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Ok, but why... over the Twinair or Diesel?

V8burble said:

Ok, but why... over the Twinair or Diesel?

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I'd suggest a test drive of a MJ before you decide. The fuel consumption figures of the MJ are excellent but the 1.2 will give it a run for its money if its 'economy' you're after. If you looking for a recommendation of a MJ verus a TA for me it would be the TA but then I'm a petrolhead. I would only drive a diesel if I had to for economy and space and IMHO I think the petrol engine suits the 500 best. I'd leave the diesels for bigger cars for better noise insulation and torque (the TA has this but pays for it at the fuel pump).

I think you're already made you mind up V8burble but ask for an extended drive or rent a TA for the weekend before you buy.

V8burble said:

Ok, but why... over the Twinair or Diesel?

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Economy. If you buy your fuel in the UK, it will be cheaper to own & run than either, unless you can benefit from the fiscal advantages of the TwinAir.

It doesnt look like you've got the answers you were after. I look at it like this. I purchased a 1.3MJD in Mar 2010 before the TA arrived and had hired a 1.2 for 4 days a few months before this.

The 1.2 suits the car well, very well. Maybe a bit tiresome on a motorway and slightly lacking in power but economy is good and it just feels a good match.

In the MA vs MJD debate I can't see further than the MJD. It costs £1k more but considering it's cheaper to run and will be worth more at trade in time will probably mean that this excess is removed. The mimimal cost for road tax is irrelevant over the MA. Overall therefore over 3/4 years there cant be more than a couple of hundred quids difference in running costs (MA vs MJD) depending on the miles you do. Maybe the MA is cheaper, maybe its the MJD.

Now ive never driven the TA but I do know the diesel goes like stink as i own one. When the turbo kicks in just over 1,500rpm there is quite a surge. I also calms down well too on the motorway and the extra weight makes it feel "planted"... and at 87mph on the click it's ticking over at a measly 3,000 revs. From 40mph onwards you never need to change down from 5th if the road allows as it has bags of torque (twice as much as the 1.2)

My advice therefore is test drive a 1.2 and see if the power is sufficient for you, if it is then this is the car for you. If you need a bit (lot) more poke (like I did) and are willing to pay for it then go for the MJD.

Thank you that's perfect. Hope to be able to test drive a 1.2 and MJD (manuals) tomorrow... So far I have driven the TA manual and a dualogic 1.2 (hated the dualogic which came as a shock).
As said above it is difficult to access them properly without an extended drive so it's very helpful to get people's experiences from ownership thank you. We intend to own it for a few years so the extra purchase cost of the MJD is not too much of an issue in the long run. Coming from a 4.2q Audi and the wife's TTR I suspect it will be a case of the best compromise of power and economy that wins LOL.

Good luck. You'll notice the stark difference in performance from 40mph+ in the diesel. I still love it how on hills on the motorway it just breezes past far bigger cars with little fuss. Amazing to think it's really only a 1.2!!! Strange how fiat classify the petrol at 1242cc as a 1.2, while the 1248cc diesel is a 1.3.


One bugbear to take notice of is the turning circle in the MJD. The 1.2 has a tight turning circle but for some reason the MJD feels far bigger (more than the official stats suggest) and it annoys a bit at first until you get used to it.


With respect to overall costs your comments are concurrent with mine. You'd expect £300-£500 quid extra resale value for the MJD vs the TA, depending on how long you keep it for plus fuel bills around £100-£200 per year less for average miles. Easy to see the £1,000 premium being wiped out.

I specced ours in lounge in BNW with tan leather, climate, italian stripe, sunroof, rubbing strip. Be wary of the standard seats, in the 1.2 sport I hired the middle portions looked v tatty and uncleanable and in a lot of the light coloured materials in other specs get messed up easily. Leather is a must imo, as are 15" wheels.

cowabunga said:

Good luck. You'll notice the stark difference in performance from 40mph+ in the diesel. I still love it how on hills on the motorway it just breezes past far bigger cars with little fuss. Amazing to think it's really only a 1.2!!! Strange how fiat classify the petrol at 1242cc as a 1.2, while the 1248cc diesel is a 1.3.

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It's so there is less confusion and a 1.3 sounds better than a 1.2

Never heard anyone call an MJ an MJD before! The D bit is slightly redundant as Multijets are all diesels

For a diesel don't you need to be doing distance driving, if you want the car as a pootle around town and local journeys you're better off going for a petrol car. So maybe that will be a deciding factor?

As far as ecconomy goes, if you aren't really heavy on the revving and drive carefully you'll get 45-50, I gather it goes up when the engine has worn in. I don't regularly do more than 10-20 miles in one go but on longer drives I've had the MPG up to 55 or so. I drive with eco mode on (city mode FTW) in town and just enjoy the ride if I go off somewhere, I'll turn off eco mode when I want some more oomph but tbh I've noticed even with eco mode on the car can still go some

cowabunga said:

Good luck. You'll notice the stark difference in performance from 40mph+ in the diesel. I still love it how on hills on the motorway it just breezes past far bigger cars with little fuss. Amazing to think it's really only a 1.2!!! Strange how fiat classify the petrol at 1242cc as a 1.2, while the 1248cc diesel is a 1.3.

One bugbear to take notice of is the turning circle in the MJD. The 1.2 has a tight turning circle but for some reason the MJD feels far bigger (more than the official stats suggest) and it annoys a bit at first until you get used to it.

With respect to overall costs your comments are concurrent with mine. You'd expect £300-£500 quid extra resale value for the MJD vs the TA, depending on how long you keep it for plus fuel bills around £100-£200 per year less for average miles. Easy to see the £1,000 premium being wiped out.

I specced ours in lounge in BNW with tan leather, climate, italian stripe, sunroof, rubbing strip. Be wary of the standard seats, in the 1.2 sport I hired the middle portions looked v tatty and uncleanable and in a lot of the light coloured materials in other specs get messed up easily. Leather is a must imo, as are 15" wheels.

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It's good to get inputs from MJ owners - I assume that you have the II version with the 95bhp engine which is a lot better than the 75bhp model. I have only driven the latter model but I would have be a regular driver of a 1.6 MJ in a Mito (same engine a little bigger) and for an everyday country drive it's great. For nipping down to shops and around the city it is not as slick as a point and squirt petrol driven 500. On the extended test drive that I had of the 'old' MJ version I found it a little nose heavy and TBH I'm not really into 'oil burners' unless I have to have one for economy reasons but it was torquey. The 1.2 doesn't have the 'spark' that would sustain my interest and I would suspect that the OP would be back at the dealers in 6 months looking to change it.

So questions for the OP...
Mileage pa
Town/Country mix
Performance ?
Typical no. of occupants in the car on a regular basis e.g. could you have 3 on a long journey - this could rule out the 1.2 on long motorway runs
Primary driver - My OH didn't like the smelly diesel at the pumps but had to get used to it

Another point. If you're nailing a MJ it does go quick but it does not give you the satisfaction of a petrol engine at high revs. The TA does that very nicely with a trigger happy rev limiter so you're 'safe'.

Here is a link that I thought was useful if you are looking at the environmental impacts of Diesel verus Petrol (thinking of Athens lifting the ban of Diesels). I at first thought it was a mistake but I have altered my view slightly...
http://www.air-quality.org.uk/26.php

I agree with many points, apart from the fact that assuming to get the diesel you need to be a distance driver. As I've illustrated above the the MJD (lol) or should I say MJ vs TA costs are very much the same.

Im not pro diesel and like the last post says it all depends on where you drive, very good post "loveshandbags". Personally if you were doing a lot of sub 40mph journeys in town I cant see further than the 1.2 as you dont need the extra power. If a lot of your journeys are 40-80mph then the diesel wins hands down. The TA fits imo into the category of you need a sub 40mph car with more ooomph than the 1.2.

I have the 95hp and agree it is a little nose heavy and weighs in at 980kg vs 860kg for the 1.2 and 830kg for the TA. Like I said earlier the 1.2 suits the car well, and I expect the TA will too.

As for the "satisfaction" of petrol at high revs I think this is far outweighed by the extra noise due to higher revs. I think the 1.2 is around 20mph/ 100 revs in 5th while the MJD is around 28mph/ 1000 revs.

My MJD aint great on fuel comsumption around town but if I had a commute at a gentle 40-70mph everyday I reckon I'd be getting 65mpg or so. As things are..... central london driving and fast motorway runs im averaging around 52mpg.

I always find it strange how people say that the 1.2 isn't good on the motorway. I spent a couple of weeks pretty much doing 80-95 most of the time. If you're the sort of driver who sits in the middle lane behind a queue of cars doing 50 and pulls out expecting to be doing 70 in 2 seconds then a 1.2 is not for you. But if you're a driver who can manage gaps and drive intelligently then you will have no trouble on the motorway.

Another thing to consider in terms of cost is tyre wear. With that heavy nose and all that torque you will find yourself replacing front tyres a lot more often with an MJ than a 1.2 or TA. Then there are the extra oil changes you'll be doing.

If you ask me, looking at the overall picture, a diesel engine doesn't make as much sense as people think, especially in a small car like a 500.

I bought a TA rather than the MJ because I couldn't stretch to the extra £1000 for the latter. I also love the sound and character of the TA.
Are there DPF issues with the MJ if it's not used for long runs?
Regarding the 1.2, if you want to minimise costs but aren't bothered by performance, this is the one to get. I car share with a TA owner whose wife has a 1.2, which he sometimes uses. On our regular journey, he gets 50mpg from the 1.2 and 55mpg from the TA. It would take a long time to recoupe the extra for the TA, and that's assuming you can resist using the extra performance.

Easy one this.
The Twinair is an amazing engine. The diesel engine, is just an old diesel.

120mph super high mpg really modern tech, what is there to think about?

Twinair 100 times out of 100. I wouldn't even think twice about it. The TA engine is one of the best reasons to buy a FIAT 500.

Neil Surrey Labs said:

Easy one this.
The Twinair is an amazing engine. The diesel engine, is just an old diesel.

120mph super high mpg really modern tech, what is there to think about?

Twinair 100 times out of 100. I wouldn't even think twice about it. The TA engine is one of the best reasons to buy a FIAT 500.

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Super high mpg? Not really. Super high official figures giving potentially juicy savings (for the time being), yes.

It is a difficult one isn't it. Thank you everyone for your input so far.

I think we have a bit of everything drivingwise in our weekly drives. My wife works in three different locations over the week, one just 2 miles down the road in town for 3 days, the second about 20 miles away up the motorway for one day and the third about 35 miles away up the motorway for one day. Annual mileage in the region of 11-13k overall.
My gut feeling is that she would mis the oomph if she got the 1.2 as she has been used to 6sec 0-60 for years and so I think she would 'need' a bit of go now and again to keep interest in the car rather than rely on its cuteness although I realise none are really quicker than the others by too much I get the feeling that the TA gives a perkier feel. Economy is reasonably important but tbh any of the 500 engines will be a good step up from the 25mpg we are used to.

V8burble said:

It is a difficult one isn't it. Thank you everyone for your input so far.

I think we have a bit of everything drivingwise in our weekly drives. My wife works in three different locations over the week, one just 2 miles down the road in town for 3 days, the second about 20 miles away up the motorway for one day and the third about 35 miles away up the motorway for one day. Annual mileage in the region of 11-13k overall.
My gut feeling is that she would mis the oomph if she got the 1.2 as she has been used to 6sec 0-60 for years and so I think she would 'need' a bit of go now and again to keep interest in the car rather than rely on its cuteness although I realise none are really quicker than the others by too much I get the feeling that the TA gives a perkier feel. Economy is reasonably important but tbh any of the 500 engines will be a good step up from the 25mpg we are used to.

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The wife regularly goes between a car which can do 0-60 in 6.5 and our 1.2 500 and never has any problems.

V8burble said:

It is a difficult one isn't it. Thank you everyone for your input so far.

I think we have a bit of everything drivingwise in our weekly drives. My wife works in three different locations over the week, one just 2 miles down the road in town for 3 days, the second about 20 miles away up the motorway for one day and the third about 35 miles away up the motorway for one day. Annual mileage in the region of 11-13k overall.
My gut feeling is that she would mis the oomph if she got the 1.2 as she has been used to 6sec 0-60 for years and so I think she would 'need' a bit of go now and again to keep interest in the car rather than rely on its cuteness although I realise none are really quicker than the others by too much I get the feeling that the TA gives a perkier feel. Economy is reasonably important but tbh any of the 500 engines will be a good step up from the 25mpg we are used to.

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My gut feeling based on what you've said is that the TwinAir is going to be the one for you.

Most people have the 1.2, and it's a terrific little engine (as Maxi says, if you use your loaf when driving it is powerful enough), but to me it sounds like the TwinAir will be the best compromise, especially based on your projected mileage as well.

The TwinAir rarely gets near its headline MPG figures, but it'll defo do much better than 25mpg, that's for sure!

Either way I wish you luck with your test drives - you will soon know which one is best for you.

V8:

Where you are right now in your decision making process reminds me of a post I made about a month back:

jrkitching said:

TBH, if I had to choose between the two, I'd be hard pressed to make a decision. I'd probably have a beer or two, mull it over some, pick one, think about the potential for expensive repairs in 5 yrs time, change my mind, watch the watchdog DPF video again, go back to my original choice, prevaricate some more, and then buy something completely different.

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