frupi said:

Notwithstanding your well thought out and intelligent assumptions of the different operating conditions, if Fiat thought their 500 engines would run better on a 0/30 oil during the winter period, wouldn't they specifically recommend that in their service manual? Again and no disrespect intended, you could be perceived as intimating that you believe you know what is best for an engine you had no part in designing or building. Using Fiats' recommended spec of oil all year round is hardly going to harm the car and of course, there won't be any warranty issues, but, as always, it is your personal decision at the end of the day.

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Whilst I agree with what you're saying, if I was to play devil's advocate I'd say that Fiat wouldn't change the grade of oil purely because it would mean that every 500 would go in for 2 oil changes a year and people would see that as an unnecessary expense.

Yes, it's all about compromise - manufacturers will obviously have to cut certain corners because it is necessary to control costs (be they manufacturing costs or running costs).

Some people are not prepared to compromise and so they may not keep to what the manufacturer has recommended or chosen, which might mean changing the oil more often or changing the suspension once and for all - or even air-conditioning their garage (although I doubt that is something most manufacturers express a view on).

Harbuzi said:

Thanks for the replies guys. The salesman did talk me through the service schedule and I am aware it is 18k.

Having thought about it for a few days, I just feel that is too long and was wondering what other people did. I know some people who are very fastiduous about their cars change oil every 5k miles (gooogle "honda accord million miles") and whilst I think this is a bit extreme, I thought maybe 10k would be about right.

I think when I get to 6 months I will assess the mileage and think about doing it then.

My 500 is my first ever new car so trying to look after it!

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Going back to the OP - Haruzi should be content that we've given our 'bestist' advice to do a 'mid cycle' change at the 6 months stage given his 18K miles p.a. using Selenia KPE 5W40 or equivalent spec ACEA C3.

From JR's 'consideration' of 0W30 it has opened 'Pandora's box' for me after the 5W40 Abarth in 'winter' Cyprus recommendation. I would be of the opinion that Abarth 'uped' the oil to 10W50 given the number of standard Abarths that were TMCd.

Came across this study (click here) that was carried out on oils and how they 'wear' before they 'ran out of money'. Before some of the findings 'get shot to pieces' I thought I'd post some vidoes. There's quite a bit of 'reading' but it can be summarised with...
we believe engine builders spec an oil for a reason, and this oil is far, far thicker now than intended for the ...

Here are the 2 ads from Castrol (I was always a fan of Mobil but not for the F500) that illustrate the progress that has been made in oils. I can't remember when the first one came out but the latter one is more recent judging by the creation date. Notice the 'bit' about oil having to 'go up hills'.



More up-todate one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=77FxXIYshpA

I've just been mooching around on the well known auction site. A seller is advertising Selenia K 5w40 Pure Energy oil for £26.74 - a LITRE!

I think I might put a bulk order in!

frupi said:

I've just been mooching around on the well known auction site. A seller is advertising Selenia K 5w40 Pure Energy oil for £26.74 - a LITRE!

I think I might put a bulk order in!

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You'd be amazed at the number of guys who would buy it thinking they're getting 5L of oil.

In Halfords this evening they have Mobil on a 20% reduction. Might suit others outside the Fiat range.
One oil caught my eye. It was a 5W-30 ESP formula - most up to date Synthetic with a ACEA C2,C3. If you check the mobile site it asks a series of questions which I have posted below. With the quest for more economy there are lowering the viscosity range along with the tighening of tolerances on the manufacture of engines which allows for the use of an even thinner oil. It wouldn't be long before a lot of the engines will be using 0W20.

306maxi said:

Well 0wXX oils are really only meant for really cold climates like Scandinavia and Eastern Europe. I'm sure that during the last couple of winters perhaps we would have benefited, but on average a 5w oil is a better bet. Also, a 0w30 oil will be thinner and provide less protection when warm than Fiat budgeted on by putting 5W40 in.

That's my understanding of course and I'm happy to be proven wrong

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:yeahthat:

This is only relevant for any remaining saddos out there ...

I was always curious on the range of viscosity of oils e.g. is a 5W40 better than a 5W30 ? And when the engine is up to 'running temperature' do they run at the same viscosity ? Also if you were to run a thinner oil how much more wear and tear do you suffer ?

On the attachment below it shows that the additional wear is only marginal on the 'Four Ball Wear Text' with a scrore of 0.45 as compared with 0.44 and the viscosity is a little thinner for the 5W30 at 40deg & 100 deg.
As regards ACEA C3 the Amsoil 5W40 qualifies & unlike the Mobil the 5W30 does not qualify. If you reference back to the spec sheets on Mobil it does not do the 'wear' test and I can't get access to Selenia's specs.

One 'thing' that I learned from the 'Study' posted earlier on is that
Mobil oil has to 'break in' i.e engine wear decreases as the oil ages and that the optimum change is at 8K miles (coincides with the US A500 service schedule).
Amsoil viscosity got much thicker as it ages so a 0W30 'becomes' a 15wX
Topping up oil has a remarked effect on stretching the life of the oil.
And lastly if you look at some previous postings getting a rating of ACEA C3 & C2 seems the best 'compromise' with the C2 'bit' getting the 'economy' tag.

loveshandbags said:

:yeahthat:

This is only relevant for any remaining saddos out there ...

I was always curious on the range of viscosity of oils e.g. is a 5W40 better than a 5W30 ? And when the engine is up to 'running temperature' do they run at the same viscosity ? Also if you were to run a thinner oil how much more wear and tear do you suffer ?

On the attachment below it shows that the additional wear is only marginal on the 'Four Ball Wear Text' with a scrore of 0.45 as compared with 0.44 and the viscosity is a little thinner for the 5W30 at 40deg & 100 deg.
As regards ACEA C3 the Amsoil 5W40 qualifies & unlike the Mobil the 5W30 does not qualify. If you reference back to the spec sheets on Mobil it does not do the 'wear' test and I can't get access to Selenia's specs.

One 'thing' that I learned from the 'Study' posted earlier on is that
Mobil oil has to 'break in' i.e engine wear decreases as the oil ages and that the optimum change is at 8K miles (coincides with the US A500 service schedule).
Amsoil viscosity got much thicker as it ages so a 0W30 'becomes' a 15wX
Topping up oil has a remarked effect on stretching the life of the oil.
And lastly if you look at some previous postings getting a rating of ACEA C3 & C2 seems the best 'compromise' with the C2 'bit' getting the 'economy' tag.

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You know it is interesting that the lower the grade the more expensive the oil. And on their lowest grade, this lubricant company said for Extreme High Performance Vehicles. Now i would assume that the lower the lubricant viscocity the higher the overall performance? I dont get 10w oils for abarth its not even fully syntetic. And going to the Nissan GTR, one of the most tuned production cars for sale, it uses 0w40!

So how is this the case?

---- Also, a 0w30 oil will be thinner and provide less protection when warm than Fiat budgeted on by putting 5W40 in. ----

I would assume the Fire Breathing GTR gets pretty warm when doing those launch contorl starts, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds. And it said if that is not available you can use 10w40 but this will LOWER performance!

It's a bit more complicated than that, better quality oils hold their viscosity better...

ahmett said:

You know it is interesting that the lower the grade the more expensive the oil. And on their lowest grade, this lubricant company said for Extreme High Performance Vehicles. Now i would assume that the lower the lubricant viscocity the higher the overall performance? I dont get 10w oils for abarth its not even fully syntetic. And going to the Nissan GTR, one of the most tuned production cars for sale, it uses 0w40!

So how is this the case?
---- Also, a 0w30 oil will be thinner and provide less protection when warm than Fiat budgeted on by putting 5W40 in. ----

I would assume the Fire Breathing GTR gets pretty warm when doing those launch contorl starts, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds. And it said if that is not available you can use 10w40 but this will LOWER performance!

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The 'European' A500 uses full synthetic 10W50 ACEA C3. It would appear that all Turbo charged cars need the higher viscosity since the Turbo and in particular the IHI on the A500 runs quite hot because of its size.
On Fiat using 5W40 the 5 is that the tolerances that they have are probably not as tight as some of the other engines 'out there'. If I was to put 0W40 in my '01 Marea I'm not too sure it would be very happy with it (although Mobil say it can be used !). I would prefer a semi-synthetic 10W40 because it's an 'old' engine but I would need to check the handbook.
Recommendation for the 500 is still 5W40 ACEA C3 for full protection and warranty cover.
Can't comment on the GTR.

I don't know if it is because of the oil but it seems that the engine is smoother now especially at high revs.

iraklas said:

I don't know if it is because of the oil but it seems that the engine is smoother now especially at high revs.

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If you're using the racing oil it will have to work a little harder than 10W50 and as the oil ages it gets thicker and has to work even harder again. It would worth doing a mpg check to see if there is any differences.
Since my oil was changed on Friday to Selenia 5W40 from possibly Castrol it does seem a little smoother but it might just be physiological.