Technical Sos rear brake pads

Currently reading:
Technical Sos rear brake pads

ahmett

Prominent member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
4,205
Points
749
Location
Athens, Greece
Hi guys i am in the service room of the fiat dealership and they are telling me you have to change your rear discs because they are worn. They are like half gone from what I see (they compared it with the old and the new) and there was a big difference. Also when i reverse and press the brakes I can hear the noise. Shall I change it? any other 30,000 km 1.4's have this problem?? They say the front brakes are fine.
 
If you search the forum you should see a cornucopia of posts on this subject.

I've just gone through a saga of brake disc issues. The key to replacing brake discs is damage and minimum thickness. I believe (and someone correct me if I'm in error) the min rear disc thickness is 9.2 mm (fronts are 20.2 mm). I would ask what the thickness of the rears are - and ideally ask to see the measurement being done yourself. If they are below get them replaced.

This post has some good information on brake discs and replacing them...

Edit: I've also recently started hearing the reversing braking noise
 
Last edited:
I did and had a look at the garage and I thought they were about 50% worn. I am uploading a picture but unfortunately i do not think it is very clear (iphone issues). I did not change the pads in the endi but they reminded me and told me in the service remarks section that i should change the rear pads within the next few thousand kilomters. The reason they said this happens is because of the traction control??
 

Attachments

  • photo.JPG
    photo.JPG
    1.2 MB · Views: 148
I did and had a look at the garage and I thought they were about 50% worn. I am uploading a picture but unfortunately i do not think it is very clear (iphone issues). I did not change the pads in the endi but they reminded me and told me in the service remarks section that i should change the rear pads within the next few thousand kilomters. The reason they said this happens is because of the traction control??

Excessive rear brake pad wear is caused by the 'sticky rear brake caliper' a problem that's well documentated and it is essentially a flaw in the design that's rectified by periodic cleaning. I would be surprised if your pads didn't last longer that the 'next few thousand kilometres'. Rear pads on the solid discs on the rear are supposedly thinner than the front ones when new. On the last service on the old 500 at the 39K mile service it got listed that they should be replaced at the next service.
 
Yes thats what I was thinking. I will take the car to a mechanic independant friend sooner or later who will give me his honest opinion and even if I have to replace it he'll do it MUCH cheaper than the Fiat Dealer so I will see what he says!
 
I've changed a lot of disc brake pads in my time and it usually takes me no more than 20 minutes per side, and that time includes messing about jacking up the car in my driveway. A competent garage should be able to do both sides within half an hour if it goes smoothly. Dealer prices for brake disc/pad changes are shocking. Unless there's something idiosyncratic about the 500's brakes it's not a hard job and there's no reason not to use an independent mechanic for this.
 
Excessive rear brake pad wear is caused by the 'sticky rear brake caliper' a problem that's well documentated and it is essentially a flaw in the design that's rectified by periodic cleaning. I would be surprised if your pads didn't last longer that the 'next few thousand kilometres'. Rear pads on the solid discs on the rear are supposedly thinner than the front ones when new. On the last service on the old 500 at the 39K mile service it got listed that they should be replaced at the next service.


You know now that you said it in this way, shouldnt fiat pay for it because of the design flaw? Maybe this should be taken up with Fiat Customer Services, at least to annoy them a bit. I will take it in a week or so to my friends independent mechanic shop I will listen to him and if he says they have to be changed I will go to Fiat Customer Services and have a chat with them. Nothing to lose really and in the worst scenario I can just get the brake pads changed for 50 euro with the friend instead of 105 at the dealers (with a 20% discount), it wont kill me.
 
You know now that you said it in this way, shouldnt fiat pay for it because of the design flaw? Maybe this should be taken up with Fiat Customer Services, at least to annoy them a bit. I will take it in a week or so to my friends independent mechanic shop I will listen to him and if he says they have to be changed I will go to Fiat Customer Services and have a chat with them. Nothing to lose really and in the worst scenario I can just get the brake pads changed for 50 euro with the friend instead of 105 at the dealers (with a 20% discount), it wont kill me.

This problem is unique to the 1.4 in the 500 & the Abarth with the rear discs. The 'problem' is compounded if the car is left lying or if the brakes don't get a good work out. As mentioned by another posting this 'build up' of gunk particularily on rear discs is also a problem with other makes. I for one am happy to deal with the additional maintenance issues associated with it for the look and the slighly extra performance.
Came across this video of a guy who gives his calipers a good clean. Goes on for several 'clips' - needs a bit of patience. But if someone is having issues with unevenly worn pads or squeeling or possibly increased fuel consumption then it's definitely worth looking at...
http://www.ehow.com/video_2260528_clean-front-brake-pads.html
 
Last edited:
Perhaps those suffering from this problem might like to have a read of this:

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/281466-500-disc-brakes-problems-solutions.html


Thanks for that JR.(y)
Given that a precedence has already been set this is a link to the sticky calliper problem on the rear (it doesn't affect the AGP). This covers the issues that the A500 owners have been suffering which has the exact same setup as the 1.4. The calipers are Lucas Girling & have a 34mm piston. There was various outcomes with some getting new parts whilst others had to pay for them. It is a well doumented issue and it would appear that the best solution is to get a 'local' competent garage (if you can't do it yourself :eek:) to do the cleaning and the greasing.
Here are some extracts from the thread...

hi, this sounds like a similar problem to 1st gen Mini. I have looked in some detail at the problem and came to the conclusion that the mountings for the caliper on the car are slightly out of position/square. In effect once the caliper is bolted up the centreline through the calipers piston is not exactly perpendicular ( square) to the disc surface. Even 1 or 2 degrees out of perpendicular will cause binding/wear problems. When you brake it is trying to bend/twist the caliper , therefore the sliders will not be able to slide smoothly in and out as they should .This is very difficult to check/proove and requires removal of all the parts and checking on an engineers surface table /digital height guage etc........Youll never get any dealer to be able to check this.


Basically the calipers are coming from the factory with bugger all grease on. Eventually the pads seize in place. They then can't slide back & start binding, so you get sqealing. Or in some cases wrecked discs & wheels.
They strip all the fittings off the calipers & then remove all the corrosion.
They the copper grease the whole thing & reassemble .
No more squeaking ........ For now
I guess this may become part of the service
 
So wait a minute. Because Fiat has useless rear brakes I have to clean my rear brakes all the time? I mean surely that is not normal car maintenance it does not even mention it in the book! Are we saying that the Fiat 500 which i really love, spoils the fun because of useless brakes that the dealers not do anything about, while the front brakes never have a problem?

So i assume if i replace the rear pads the problem will just return! There must be some action on this, what does everyone think?
 
So wait a minute. Because Fiat has useless rear brakes I have to clean my rear brakes all the time? I mean surely that is not normal car maintenance it does not even mention it in the book!

This isn't confined to the rear brakes - sadly the fronts can suffer in the same way too. Rapidly corroding cast iron reaction frames have been a feature of every cheapish car I've owned for the past 20 years, and I've needed to do regular maintenance as described in my linked post. If you clean & lubricate after every winter they'll be just fine, & will still work far better than stock if done every 2nd year.

So i assume if i replace the rear pads the problem will just return!

Very likely, unless the reaction frames are cleaned & lubricated as I've described in my linked post.

There must be some action on this, what does everyone think?

At the design level, stainless steel inserts in the reaction frames would almost certainly eliminate the pad binding problem. That would be a useful mod but would add a little to the component cost of the car. Very unlikely to happen IMO.

From a functional point of view, I seriously doubt the 1.4 has sufficient performance to benefit from rear discs & the car would likely be better off with drums at the back. I suspect the decision to fit discs has been taken by marketing, not engineering.
 
This isn't confined to the rear brakes - sadly the fronts can suffer in the same way too. Rapidly corroding cast iron reaction frames have been a feature of every cheapish car I've owned for the past 20 years, and I've needed to do regular maintenance as described in my linked post. If you clean & lubricate after every winter they'll be just fine, & will still work far better than stock if done every 2nd year.



Very likely, unless the reaction frames are cleaned & lubricated as I've described in my linked post.



At the design level, stainless steel inserts in the reaction frames would almost certainly eliminate the pad binding problem. That would be a useful mod but would add a little to the component cost of the car. Very unlikely to happen IMO.

From a functional point of view, I seriously doubt the 1.4 has sufficient performance to benefit from rear discs & the car would likely be better off with drums at the back. I suspect the decision to fit discs has been taken by marketing, not engineering.


Mr Kitching thank you for your informed post. Its good to have proper mechanics on the forum. I see what you mean and it makes perfect sense, I will not change the pads but I will get them cleaned. However, I believe that Fiat should change this system because I dont think the car would be that much more expensive with these modifications, especially with mass production economies of scale. I was even thinking of starting a protest and going to Fiats head office in the UK with every other 1.4 owner and honking our horns continuously until they fix the problem. At least that would be fun = ) Anyway I am in greece so this is not possible, but if any 1.4/abarth owners would like to do it i would be happy that they chose to do it!

For now I will clean the brakes once a year at least. I will let you guys know how soon the 'pig squealing' returns if it returns at all.
 
I took the car to a friend independent who checked the brakes and confirmed to me that they were worn and needed to be replaced. He told me that cars with ESP and things like hill holder tend to use the rear brakes more often, which could explain why the front brakes are fine and the rears arent. Anyway I will get them changed for 40 euros, far better than the 105 the Fiat dealership was asking with a discount!!!
 
Had the rear brake pads replaced and lubricated today at a friend dealer for 40 euros. They used mintex pads (i guess these are standard ones). I will let you guys know if my brake pads get worn again after one year!
 
Haha the yanks couldnt figure out what the problem was! = )
As we know this is a very common problem on the Fiat 500 with rear brake discs


From Car and Driver :: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-fiat-500-sport-long-term-wrap-up-review-update-one-page-2

At about 14,000 miles, the parking brake became sticky, and morning drive-offs were preceded by an unnerving straining and then a disconcerting clunk of the brake finally releasing. The service department investigated and found nothing wrong with the brake, and the problem, er, faded. However, by 18,000 miles, the hand-brake handle had become unacceptably wobbly, so it was tightened at the dealership. The clunk still happens every once in a while and hasn’t yet been fully diagnosed.

.
 
Back
Top