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General Gearbox noises.

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General Gearbox noises.

Does your diesel's gearbox grumble

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 57.1%

  • No

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • Total voters
    7
P

Postman Pat

New member
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
5
Points
1
Hello all my Mum and Dad have a 1.3 diesel lounge on a 58 plate, after 200 miles or so started making the gearbox noise on upshifts as in this thread https://www.fiatforum.com/500/161485-gearbox-clutch-noise-new-500-a.html
After a lot of faffing around with the dealers and FIAT Uk they have been informed it is a characteristic of the vehicle and they have to live with the noise.
My parents are now looking into rejecting the vehicle and exchanging it for a petrol, they have been through trading standards who agree that a fault of this nature is unsatisfactory in a new vehicle. Trading standards are willing to provide support in their favour if this goes to court.
Could anyone who has this issue please vote in the poll, as I would be interested to know how wide spread this is?

Many many thanks and i will keep this thread updated

Alex(y)


Edit - Added more information
 
Last edited:
Postman Pat said:
Hello all my Mum and Dad have a 1.3 diesel lounge on a 58 plate, after 200 miles or so started making the infamous gearbox noise on upshifts.
After a lot of faffing around with the dealers and FIAT Uk they have been informed it is a characteristic of the vehicle and they have to live with the noise.
My parents are now looking into rejecting the vehicle and exchanging it for a petrol, they have been through trading standards who agree that a fault of this nature is unsatisfactory in a new vehicle. Trading standards are willing to provide support in their favour if this goes to court.
Could anyone who has this issue please vote in the poll, as I would be interested to know how wide spread this is?

Many many thanks and i will keep this thread updated

Alex(y)
Click to expand...
What noise is it making? Infamous noise means nothing.....
 
I don't mean to be flippant but did they not testdrive the car? Also as said in the other thread it doesn't affect the operation of the car so what's the problem? It's not a fault or anything, it's simply a bit of a noise. If you go to court the outcome probably won't be favourable for you if Fiat try to fight it.
 
I did alot of miles in a 1.3 diesel 500 I had as a courtesy car, and yes it made a sort of chattering noise on upshifts. It was basically new, about 1k miles on it. I asked about it in passing and was told its normal for that model due to it being heavier duty than the petrol models gearboxes.
 
In my parents case it is a lot of a noise, a loud rumbling/knocking noise on upshifts similar to a failed clutch release bearing. Car was test driven and problem occured 2 days after collection from dealership. Dealership / Fiat can't or won't fix the problem.
Personally I would not be happy spending £13000 on a car and have a problem develop and not have the issue resolved.
To quote the following


Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

My parents were not informed at the point of sale there was this on going issue with this model, a gearbox that makes such noises surely cannot be fit for purpose or satisfactory quality?

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.


Again as above


• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.


How can a gearbox with such issues be again fit for purpose, free from minor defects. Are there going to be any long term durability issues from this issue?



• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.


The action if any is to be taken will be against the delearship FIAT Uk does not need to be involved



• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)


2 Days from time of purchase reasonable?


• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.


They are requesting a replacement vehicle, the dealer even offers a 30 day satisfaction guarantee whereby you can exchange the vehicle if you are not happy, not in this case though



• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit


• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).


Independant inspection is scheduled



• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)


Any more questions? :D




 
Postman Pat said:
In my parents case it is a lot of a noise, a loud rumbling/knocking noise on upshifts similar to a failed clutch release bearing. Car was test driven and problem occured 2 days after collection from dealership. Dealership / Fiat can't or won't fix the problem.
Personally I would not be happy spending £13000 on a car and have a problem develop and not have the issue resolved.
To quote the following


Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

My parents were not informed at the point of sale there was this on going issue with this model, a gearbox that makes such noises surely cannot be fit for purpose or satisfactory quality?

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.


Again as above


• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.


How can a gearbox with such issues be again fit for purpose, free from minor defects. Are there going to be any long term durability issues from this issue?



• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.


The action if any is to be taken will be against the delearship FIAT Uk does not need to be involved



• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)


2 Days from time of purchase reasonable?


• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.


They are requesting a replacement vehicle, the dealer even offers a 30 day satisfaction guarantee whereby you can exchange the vehicle if you are not happy, not in this case though



• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit


• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).


Independant inspection is scheduled



• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)


Any more questions? :D
Click to expand...

Question, did you read the other thread? The clear conclusion from that thread seems to be that while annoying the noise that the gearbox makes is not an indication of poor quality or any sort of fault.

Your issue is like someone who's never heard or driven a diesel engined car stepping out of a petrol car into a noisy early to mid 90's diesel and complaining that "It's a bit tappety and I want you to replace it". It's the nature of the car that it makes this noise just like it's a nature of both the 500 and Subaru that we have that occasionally they crunch when going into reverse because reverse isn't synchro'd.

There is no FAULT with your parents car therefore Fiat does NOT need to replace it or issue a refund. Your parents should have testdriven the model they were going to purchase to see if there were any inherent "quirks" with it which they weren't happy with and surely they would have picked this up as it's par for the course going from that other thread.
 
306maxi said:
Question, did you read the other thread? The clear conclusion from that thread seems to be that while annoying the noise that the gearbox makes is not an indication of poor quality or any sort of fault.

Your issue is like someone who's never heard or driven a diesel engined car stepping out of a petrol car into a noisy early to mid 90's diesel and complaining that "It's a bit tappety and I want you to replace it". It's the nature of the car that it makes this noise just like it's a nature of both the 500 and Subaru that we have that occasionally they crunch when going into reverse because reverse isn't synchro'd.

There is no FAULT with your parents car therefore Fiat does NOT need to replace it or issue a refund. Your parents should have testdriven the model they were going to purchase to see if there were any inherent "quirks" with it which they weren't happy with and surely they would have picked this up as it's par for the course going from that other thread.
Click to expand...

If the noise as I previously stated had been present on the test drive, my parents would not have purchased it, in the previous threads to a certain extent the fault has been remedied, however FIAT and the dealership are unwilling to fix the problem or assure my parents that a long term solution is being worked on.
The dealership has written to my parents on two occasions on the first stating the problem is a fault, on the second it is a characteristic. If it is a fault then surely it should be fixed if a characteristic then why at the point of sale did the dealership not inform my parents of it but reassure them that a fix was being worked on?
Are there any long term owner reports of people with high mileage vehicles with this fault suffering any issues deriving from this later in the cars life? Long term will this create gearbox problems when the vehicle is out of warranty?
It took FIAT 4 years to solve the problem with the 2.3 Ducato making grinding noises when driven in reverse, and what about the Scudo van regularly wearing out steering racks. I don't have an axe to grind with FIAT but my parents want to see a definite conclusion to this rather than open ended promises of it will be okay don't worry.

I only posted this to see how widespread this problem was can't beat a good debate though (y)
 
Sorry to bump up an old thread but thought an update was needed.
My parents never started legal action, the just spoke to FIAT head office (IIRC) in Turin they questioned FIAT Uk as to why an unhappy customer was contacting them and appointed my parents a customer liason manager in Italy.
After a month of discussion and emails my parents took delivery of a brand new '10 plate 1.4 sport with climate and sunroof as an apology. The gearbox noise is a fault and has been accepted as such by FIAT through their actions.
I hope this help anyone else who is not willing to just live with this issue (y)

HTH
 
Congratulations on getting a result, looks like perseverance has for once paid off. (y)

:chin: Maybe I might go down the same route and drop them an email if I don't get a result next Wednesday regarding the noise problem on my car. I am hoping that with all the info I have given to Fiat UK, garnered here from owners who have had the problem resolved, I will be able to have the modified parts fitted whilst still in the two year warranty period.
 
Postman Pat said:
Sorry to bump up an old thread but thought an update was needed.
My parents never started legal action, the just spoke to FIAT head office (IIRC) in Turin they questioned FIAT Uk as to why an unhappy customer was contacting them and appointed my parents a customer liason manager in Italy.
After a month of discussion and emails my parents took delivery of a brand new '10 plate 1.4 sport with climate and sunroof as an apology. The gearbox noise is a fault and has been accepted as such by FIAT through their actions.
I hope this help anyone else who is not willing to just live with this issue (y)

HTH
Click to expand...
Good stuff :) Fiat CS are usually very good and doing a Zakt should only be the last resort.
 
Well done on getting this sorted. Clearly your parents' very wise move of contacting Trading Standards early on, and becoming fully informed of their rights and the obligations due to them was invaluable in this matter. I ALWAYS suggest that people contact Trading Standards if their dealers are fobbing them off, and this is a perfect example of why that should be done.
Clearly, Fiat Customer Services in the UK had badly failed your parents. It seems that some people on this site look at Fiat UK's Customer Services throught rose-tinted spectacles, and no doubt will continue to do so, even though it took Fiat's Italian team to sort this matter out when their UK counterparts had fobbed you off.
Perhaps now at lleast some people will wake up and see that there is nothing better than becoming fully informed of your legal rights and utilising them effecively, rather than just blindly believing that Fiat UK's Customer Services are all-knowing gods
 
Mark Elvin said:
maxi....play nicely
Click to expand...
Believe me, if I'd have said what I REALLY wanted to say I would be banned now. This is a joke, he needlessly promotes antagonism between customers and Fiat CS. He deserves absolutely no respect for the way he acts and he won't be getting any from me till he stops this stupidity....
 
What's the problem with you people? I congratulate the OP for a job well done, despite the best attempts of his dealer and Fiat UK customer services to ignore his valid complaints - read his previous posts for clarification - and you whine!
There's no pleasing some people!
 
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