I have a 500 Lounge Diesel with 500 miles on the clock. The car is superb apart from one annoying thing. As I dip the clutch there is a knocking noise which slows to nothing after about 6 'knocks'. The noise is quite remote but is definitely there. It's a cross between knocking and rumbling. It's most noticeable from 1st to 2nd but is there all the way up.

The dealer has agreed the noise is there and fitted a new clutch and release bearing but this has made no difference. I must admit I had my doubts that it was clutch related as it didn't continue with the clutch depressed. The impression I have is that it is something to do with the gearbox. I can also get the noise by holding the revs around 2500 and dipping the clutch while in neutral. It sounds like one of the gearbox shafts running without load with a number of broken teeth!.

They then let me take another identical model out and the same noise was on that one too, but much quieter. In fact I probably wouldn't have noticed had I not had the 'louder' version on my 500.

It's loud enough for passengers to comment on.

The dealer is contacting Fiat Technical and then getting back in touch with me.

Anyone else had this problem?

John

baxwalker said:

I have a 500 Lounge Diesel with 500 miles on the clock. The car is superb apart from one annoying thing. As I dip the clutch there is a knocking noise which slows to nothing after about 6 'knocks'.John

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Hi John

I suspect all the diesels do this, mine certainly does. The dealer replaced a splined part of the clutch which they felt had excess play, which I suppose reduced the noise somewhat, but it's still there.

Cheers

Thanks for that Pearce.

I think I must have one of the 'louder' ones. I can live with it if they can reduce it to volume of the other 500 diesel I tried today as a comparison.

It will be interesting to see any other owners respond.

John

I did notice the noise on the diesel I drove, generally I have found Fiat boxes to be a bit noisy at idle... having said that my 500s is the quietest Ive had.

nuovapanda said:

I did notice the noise on the diesel I drove, generally I have found Fiat boxes to be a bit noisy at idle... having said that my 500s is the quietest Ive had.

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i wonder if the dual mass fly wheels are doing it i think they have them ill listen out for it next one i drive

baxwalker said:

I have a 500 Lounge Diesel with 500 miles on the clock. The car is superb apart from one annoying thing. As I dip the clutch there is a knocking noise which slows to nothing after about 6 'knocks'. The noise is quite remote but is definitely there. It's a cross between knocking and rumbling. It's most noticeable from 1st to 2nd but is there all the way up.

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I notice this noise as well, but as I have never driven another diesel 500 I put it down to being normal. As you say it is more noticeable when changing between 1st and 2nd and the noise gets slower an quieter in the first few seconds. To be honest I put the sound down to the engine as opposed to the box as it does reduce as the revs drop but saying that the gearbox internals slow right down as soon as the drive from the engine is released so maybe I will need to have mine assessed.

As it is not an unpleasant noise I am not too worried about it at the moment so I will wait until the first service is due unless something else happens that necessitates a trip to the dealer or if pip comes up with anything in the meantime.



If the Southern Meet goes ahead and there are any other diesels there perhaps I will be able to compare notes.

littlepip17 said:

i wonder if the dual mass fly wheels are doing it i think they have them ill listen out for it next one i drive

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Do all the 500s have dual mass flywheels pip? If so, thats not great as they do fail and are horrendously pricey to replace.

nuovapanda said:

Do all the 500s have dual mass flywheels pip? If so, thats not great as they do fail and are horrendously pricey to replace.

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I know on the Honda Accord only the diesel has the dual mass flywheel so it could be the same on the FIAT as they were originally fitted to cope with the extra torque that the diesel engine produces over it's petrol equivalent.

Only the Diesel, to help balance the engine.

Ford has acknowledged the inherent unreliability of these things and has engineered the Diesel engine in the new Fiesta to do without one. Ford states that reliability was the reason for this. I have one and I am anxiously awaiting the worst... actually this is the main reason (as well as price) that my next car will be petrol.

none of the petrols have dual mass in the 500 at present not sure about turbo

the diesels i'm not sure about i know the 1.9s have it now not too shore about the little one

the reason they fit them is that they allow a little flex in the fly wheel meaning at idle with the clutch out the main shaft of the gearbox is not shaken so much buy the heavy acelerations of the engine every combustion compared to petrol

this causes gearbox chatter without the dual mass lfy wheel so it's a quietening excersise really nothing to do with high power out put or balansing the engine or anything else atall

Thanks for the many responses to this thread. I'm glad i wasn't just imagining the noise. It's also surprising that none of the reviewers in the motoring press have picked up on it - perhaps they had the 'quieter' versions .

Out of interest I've found a way of replicating the sound at standstill.

Leave the vehicle in neutral.

Hold the revs between 2500 and 3000 revs.

Depress the clutch and you will probably hear the noise quite plainly as you slowly move the clutch in.

Move the clutch up and down fast and you will definitely hear it.

Very strange as I've found that it only makes the noise while the clutch pedal is actually travelling. As soon you as you hold the pedal still in any position the noise stops. Move it just a fraction and the noise comes back. The worst noise is when the clutch is about 3/4 down. Try moving the pedal slowly up and down around this position. You can also feel quite a vibration on the pedal too.

I can't even start to think why it should do this, particularly on a brand new car. I've a fair mechanical knowledge and I've tried to picture what is actually happening with the clutch/geerbox under these conditions but I'm at a loss for an answer.

One of you more technical guys might have the answer. If you have - please let FIAT know

Re dual-mass - diesels have much higher compression so need a heavier flywheel to keep running at idle. But heavy flywheel completely stuffs 1st gear acceleration, 2nd to a lesser extent, hence with such low BHP the need for dual mass. No idea what Ford are doing but the TDCi in the only Fiesta was a gem IMHO.

UPDATE

Local Fiat Dealer has checked on other diesel 500s in stock and they have the same noise but quieter than mine. Fiat UK are sending a specialist down and have asked to see my vehicle as it is one of the 'louder' ones to try and identify the problem.

Excellent service!

baxwalker said:

UPDATE

Local Fiat Dealer has checked on other diesel 500s in stock and they have the same noise but quieter than mine. Fiat UK are sending a specialist down and have asked to see my vehicle as it is one of the 'louder' ones to try and identify the problem.

Excellent service!

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That is good service, i hope they find the problem ,i will watch with interest as i ordered the diesel also

Now that is good, hope they resolve the problem.

pearce_jj said:

Re dual-mass - diesels have much higher compression so need a heavier flywheel to keep running at idle. But heavy flywheel completely stuffs 1st gear acceleration, 2nd to a lesser extent, hence with such low BHP the need for dual mass. No idea what Ford are doing but the TDCi in the only Fiesta was a gem IMHO.

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wrong it's still the same weight as it happens the diesels specially a 1248cc don't have all that much more weight on it

the dual mass is simply a ruber mass inbetween the main bulk of the fly wheel and the clutch drive surface

allowing a little bit of play to stop gearbox chatter as i said above

i had a go in one today and didn't notice it but interestingly enough as the poster above suggested i reved it a little lifting and lowering the clutch

the only noises i could hear was the rubing as the new unworn clutch lining was coming into contact with everything and the noise of the gearbox spining up as it engaged all normal and only audible with windows open from out side the car

the vibration is just cos of the engine movement transmiting to the engine and also normal providing it's not very bad i wouldnt know with out personaly having a look at yours you it's your judgement i spose

other things that could be causing a noise when the clutch is used may be the exhaust or engine mounts have something court in them or are miss alighned anyway ill hold out for when fiat have a look i hope you post up what they find

Hi Littlepip

If the model you had been in was one with this noise problem, you would have certainly noticed it from within the car. When doing the reving at 2500 in neutral and moving the clutch you would have heard and felt it at all stages of clutch movement. Below 2500 there is no noise and the clutch is smooth. As I've already stated, the strange thing is that as soon as you stop moving the clutch up or down, the noise ceases immediatley. it doesn't make any difference whether you move the clutch really slowly or fast.

The Fiat mechanic was very surprised when he first heard the noise and called the manager out to listen to it. The first thought was that the release bearing had failed but that has been replaced along with the clutch plate. That's when we took other identical models out and to their further surprise the same noise was on them too but much quieter. If anyone else has this problem, I have a cure - put ZZ Top in the CD and turn the volume on full!!

All very interesting but I'm sure the problem will be resolved - the car is faultless otherwise.

rkt2003 said:

That is good service, i hope they find the problem ,i will watch with interest as i ordered the diesel also

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Don't let this thread and the problem with the clutch put you off. I'm certain the problem will be solved and the car otherwise is probably the best car I've ever owned in 40+ years. You can't help but like this car -

baxwalker said:

Don't let this thread and the problem with the clutch put you off. I'm certain the problem will be solved and the car otherwise is probably the best car I've ever owned in 40+ years. You can't help but like this car -

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Thanks for that mine is on a boat as we speak so not long now!

i wonder if the clutch slave cylinder is sticking and the vibration from the engine as you move is making it jump rather than move smovely it may wear in with time

hance the noise and vibration on pedal