fiat500 said:

Firstly...what gear is it in in that image? presumably 2, 4 or reverse?

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It was nutural.

I have attached photographs in neutral, then 4th and finally 1st.

In asking if the original photograph was taken in 2nd/4th/R, when it was nutural, suggests something might be way out??

Stuart.

SDHXIII said:

It was nutural.

I have attached photographs in neutral, then 4th and finally 1st.

In asking if the original photograph was taken in 2nd/4th/R, when it was nutural, suggests something might be way out??

Stuart.

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I have to retract my original thoughts about that because I was getting the concept of where the gear lever pivots in the car a bit mixed up, (back to front).
When I re-read back a bit the other day I realise that you've had a new rear panel fitted which confuses some of the theory about this. Even if the gearbox mounting has been distorted it's not going to pull back the box with it because the main engine mounting will keep it in place.

I'll look at mine tomorrow and compare it with the image of yours in first gear; it doesn't look bad as you couldn't get that selector rod much further in...I'll be back unless Tony does so first.

The only thing that worries me is the fact that prior to the rear end shunt it was fine. One of the major factors when fault finding is most faults like this happen for a reason and the blatantly obvious thing is when it was hit from behind. I would think that the weak link in the gear selector shaft is the lollipop and you would expect the flexibility of the rubber to absorb the impact and prevent it from damaging the internals of the gearbox? But the amount of movement required to prevent it from selecting a gear properly is mm’s.

In the second set of pictures the lollipop doesn’t look as bad as it did originally but it does still look like the rubber hasn’t been adhered to the metal parts of the lollipop centrally. I would still be tempted to change the lollipop and see if it fixes the problem.

What sort of speed were you rear ended at Stuart?

Stuart, after changing your rear panel and done the adjustment are your gears still jump? if yes which gear, 1st and 3rd or 2nd and 4th?

Vitesse said:

What sort of speed were you rear ended at Stuart?

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I was pretty much stationery and hit at around 15mph.

I have today ordered a new lollypop, having looked at the history file, the engine a gearbox were changed in the early '90's whether the lollypop was changed as well I don't know, but either way a replacement won't do any harm.

Stuart

I checked my car as promised. Sorry about the poor images but I couldn't be bothered to jack up the car. I'm glad I checked though, as you can see I have a bad leak since changing the oil for proper Tutela gear-oil....good job I have another gearbox under assembly.
I'm not seeing much difference in the position of the selector-rod between the boxes but possibly mine is throwing a bit further back than yours. I hope that changing the linkage works but if not, we may will need to have look at your balls. (selector balls).

images in order:
1st my car, 1st your car
4th my car, neutral my car
neutral your car, 4th your car

This morning we had the little FIAT up on the ramps and replaced the gear linkage lollypop, the old one actually wasn't to bad (photo 3) and had no more play to it than the new one.

We replaced the part whilst the 13mm tunnel bolts loosened which shifted their position more to the middle of their slots.

Once the lollypop was changed I tightened the 13mm bolts slightly then completed the 1-2-3-4 gear changes in quick succession a few times and then fully tightened the 13mm bolts.

I took the car for a quick test drive a have already noticed a difference, the little FIAT feels much more convincing when I put her in to all gears but especially third which was the real problem. Drove the usual route which has previously resulted in the gear jumping out and nothing, just sits in gear perfectly.

I will take her for a longer test in time, but for now think the problem is solved with the knowledge that I can still make small adjustments on the 13mm bolts now I have got forward and backward adjustment available again.

It just remains for me to thank everyone for their help, suggestions and encouragement. I now can't wait to get out and drive my gorgeous little FIAT. I've now got a few little jobs that need doing and it will now be a pleasure working on her.

Thank you all.
Stuart.

Great result Stuart. Keep the old linkage in the boot as a spare....you never know with these new parts; it might get you out of a fix some day and takes up no space stowed away.
You have got free movement where the thing connects both to the selector shaft and the gear rod?

Well done Stuart. Every day is a learning day on a 500, so the more you take on the more confident you will get.

You’ll be setting the backlash on a differential next? Oh no wait! We already have an expert on that. I don’t think some people on here get my lowest form of wit humour.

Vitesse said:

You’ll be setting the backlash on a differential next? Oh no wait! We already have an expert on that. I don’t think some people on here get my lowest form of wit humour.

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I would try to put all thoughts of adjustments to the differential out of your mind; God knows I'm trying to do that myself now!:bang::bang::bang:
Next, you could try a knob replacement though.
(I'm afraid there's always someone whose "humour" will go lower than yours).

fiat500 said:

I would try to put all thoughts of adjustments to the differential out of your mind; God knows I'm trying to do that myself now!:bang::bang::bang:
Next, you could try a knob replacement though.
(I'm afraid there's always someone whose "humour" will go lower than yours).

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:nono: I have a knob replacement already it’s called my “king pin”. Oh I think this thread is getting dragged to the depths by the usual suspects. Mind you the gear knob thread didn’t fair much better.:Offtopic:

Sorry Stuart :shrug:

fiat500 said:

Great result Stuart.
You have got free movement where the thing connects both to the selector shaft and the gear rod?

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For as long as I can remember working on Fiat 500s, 126s & 850s when it came to the flexible gear linkage joint now affectionately known as the "lolly pop" the fixings at either end consisted of the bolt, a stepped collar, a nylock nut and a thin curved spring washer that would fit onto the small diameter of the collar giving light pressure to the collar flange and the arm of the lolly pop when all was tightened up. This allowed the free movement as well as acting as an anti-vibration mount. This washer no longer seems to be supplied and in fact is not mentioned in any manual or parts book so if a new link is correctly fitted you will get free movement but no anti-vibration effect. Anybody else notice this?
I also see that the 126 gearboxes shown in the pictures are missing the rubber boot that I included in the picture.

I would agree, the 'wavy' spring washer seems to being left out of the kits theses days. Without that washer, there is a chance that one will suffer what I am suffering---a slight rattle in the gear linkage. As I am having both the engine and the gear-box out this winter (to sort out a variety of niggles, including oil leaks) this is something that I will be attending to. The rubber boots ARE available as separate items, but it would be much better if they were included in the kits.

Toshi 975 said:

This washer no longer seems to be supplied and in fact is not mentioned in any manual or parts book so if a new link is correctly fitted you will get free movement but no anti-vibration effect. Anybody else notice this?.

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This explains a lot, after I had similar problems and adjust everything correct (shortened the lollypop in my case) I had this bad rattling so few days ago I put some electric tape around the nuts and the Lollypop to see if noise was from there. Today i had a long ride and after I reed this post I realized that rattling is now gone.

fiat500 said:

You have got free movement where the thing connects both to the selector shaft and the gear rod?

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As per advice in the latest FIAT 500 Owners Club magazine, both ends were tightened and then loosened slightly for a bit of movement. My kit for not come with the springy washers.

Will monitor for rattles and vibrations.

Stuart

Toshi 975 said:

I also see that the 126 gearboxes shown in the pictures are missing the rubber boot that I included in the picture.

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I don't know about Stuart but the rubber boot on my gearbox isn't missing but rather it was helpfully pulled back for photography to reveal the inner workings. Having said that, in common with all other replica rubber components for my car, the rubber gaiter is in a parlous state and became that way within weeks of being fitted.

It's an interesting thought that the lack of that crinkle-washer might cause a rattle in the gear selector department; I've had a persistent noise at the gearstick at certain speed/gear combinations since putting the car back on the road. I've put it down to a faulty or missing, anti-rattle spring at the base of the gear-lever which is pictured on the 126 diagrams but not on those for the 500 (Haynes). I bought a new one ages ago but still haven't got round to investigating it.

Funny thing is that the other day i had in hand a set of four conical spring washers of that size at work and i don't remember what i done with them:bang: First thing to do Monday morning

gordinir8 said:

Funny thing is that the other day i had in hand a set of four conical spring washers of that size at work and i don't remember what i done with them:bang: First thing to do Monday morning

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The original washers are like a curved Spring shim, very thin to retain some movement when the nut is tightened. I can't find anything quite the same on ebay but the nearest ones are described as wavy or crinkle washers.