aaron500 said:

Love it ! - I have just bought a 58 500 too! If you know of a good parts supplier that would be much appreciated ! Thanks

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To be honest if you haven’t got the parts with the car don’t waste your time at the local fiat car part suppliers and the N’s are a hole new ball game . Fira field ITALY......... what parts do you need ?

Spike64 said:

To be honest if you haven’t got the parts with the car don’t waste your time at the local fiat car part suppliers and the N’s are a hole new ball game . Fira field ITALY......... what parts do you need ?

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I need rear seats, lights, fuel tank.
Things like floors and sills are pretty available for these.

aaron500 said:

I need rear seats, lights, fuel tank.
Things like floors and sills are pretty available for these.

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58 with front vents would not have had a rear seat.
rear lights about £650 for originals - Italy.. keep looking
Tank... there were a few repros floating round the USA for about £750 a few years back.... but then you need a sender about £150...
other than that.... only seen one for sale... ages ago...

everything else hens teeth....

58 could have had tubular seat frames.... repros floating around for something like $2000


some nice bits on Ebay it at the moment that would scare the hell out of people

Rear wishbones about£2000

Yeah mighty glad my rear arms and seat frames are good

Spike64 said:

Yeah mighty glad my rear arms and seat frames are good

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one of the joys of N ownership..... those elusive missing parts....

A US spec heat exchanger exhaust is something I have only seen once...

did you ever work out those differences with your thermostat/heater system?

after the expose on the door quality are you going to do a Sean and repair yours?

Bigvtwin996 said:

58 with front vents would not have had a rear seat.
rear lights about £650 for originals - Italy.. keep looking
Tank... there were a few repros floating round the USA for about £750 a few years back.... but then you need a sender about £150...
other than that.... only seen one for sale... ages ago...

everything else hens teeth....

58 could have had tubular seat frames.... repros floating around for something like $2000


some nice bits on Ebay it at the moment that would scare the hell out of people

Rear wishbones about£2000

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Yeah, Ebay - populated by dreamers and greedy ones at that.
When parts sellers are demanding such high prices, my approach is make my own parts.

Tanks and seat frames can be copied by one of the dwindling number of craftmen for which Great Britain used to be famous. They can still be found, e.g. working on vintage vehicles. Several companies make aluminium tanks from patterns or drawings. Old-style radiator repair specialists can repair steel tanks. Car re-trimmers can either repair seat frames or put you in contact with someone who can. A length of tubing, a pipe bender, a bit of welding and job done.Trimming - dismantle an old seat, see how it's done, and copy this or see a Trimmer. And, what is so complicated about rear wishbones? Especially if you have a pattern to copy? You might even be able to improve on the design - change the pivot points/geometry, build in some adjustability, incorporate better driveshaft couplings/joints, include mountings for disc brakes etc.

Nothing is insurmountable, because everything was handmade originally, even it was just for the prototype (prototipo )

Lamps, I'm no purist :
so would probably just fit later lamps (unless the car was very valuable).

At the end of the day, when all is said and done, does it really matter if your car is slightly different to how it was when it left the factory (any change might actually be an improvement). Surely the aim should be to get your car back on the road economically and be able to use and enjoy it. Unless, of course, you're in this hobby to make money....

AL.

F123C said:

Unless, of course, you're in this hobby to make money....

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Possible direct hit of nail on head regarding some restorers other than Mr. Spike.
Well said Al.

Yeah the doors do seem to be a problem.mine should be ok with a bit of bending and twisting .

There is a top hose on eBay at the moment €250 the hose is for my set up but I must say it’s quite an unusual setup

F123C said:

,,,,,,,,,,,
Tanks and seat frames can be copied by one of the dwindling number of craftmen for which Great Britain used to be famous.
...........Trimming - dismantle an old seat, see how it's done, and copy this or see a Trimmer. And, what is so complicated about rear wishbones?
...........

Nothing is insurmountable, because everything was handmade originally, even it was just for the prototype (prototipo )

Lamps, I'm no purist :
so would probably just fit later lamps (unless the car was very valuable).
.........

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I do agree... I used to be into VW Vans and was told Ohhh you can't get them made..." well as you say.. "they were made by man... using processes that were about in the 1950s..." and with modern techniques it should be easier..

In the past I have had stuff remade by some of these craftsmen and experts could not tell them from originals... but the guys I used are now in their 80s and not that interested in doing stuff.... I have approached a few companies about getting what would be simple stuff remade.... sure if I wanted 1000 or more the prices would be reasonable..

finding a pattern is as hard as finding a usable part in some cases... I know of two sets of tubular seat frames in the UK... one set I think owned by Andy (Spike) the other by myself... sure later ones will fit..


The rear wishbones can be swapped for later ones... and you could fit any lights... so why bother buying an N? they are worth considerably more than later cars if restored correctly...
buy a cheap F for restoration, I'm sure someone could adapt the doors to look like early ones (they do that on Minis) fit an early front panel and I'm sure you could hack out the roof to make a long sun roof (I looked at this) this would cost a lot less than buying an N to start and trying to find parts.

As Andy has said many times (and I "told you so")... An N is like no other 500, virtually nothing is the same as later cars...

I think the old days of just "keep it on the road" have gone and many people would comment that an N with F lights was just wrong, repro stuff is about even for N's but I think many people have commented about the quality of F/L stuff, N/D stuff is no better....

Don't get me wrong... who ever owns a car is free to do with it what ever they want.... fit a Bike engine, trim it in brown buttoned draylon... your choice..
I have seen a guy ruin the oldest RHD N in the world simply because it was brought cheap.. and he wanted a boy racer car..

This is the hose

So I have that heat exchanger which I won’t be using. My aim isn’t to make it an exact, all original example like it came out of the factory. Aesthetically it will look pretty original. But things like fuel senders, washer bags and so on I will must use what ever is available.
I may try and fit rear seats to make it my usable. I didn’t know the rest arms were different from later cars? Lucky all my suspension is present. Seats, again I will be using after market,
Very slightly more supportive seats but re trimmed in period correct material. Engine will be heavily tuned ( using a donor engine ) I will keep the original engine to one side. But I’ve been looking for my one for over 10 years so will not be selling it.

fiat500 said:

Possible direct hit of nail on head regarding some restorers other than Mr. Spike.
Well said Al.

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Not being of 'the moneyed classes' myself , it just grates with me when people willingly pay exhorbitant prices for old parts (s/h or nos!). It just drives up the prices for everyone. And of course everyone tends to think their old parts are in better condition/rarer than everyone elses - so the prices being sought keep increasing.

I believe it's no harm keeping a lid on costs (or at least trying to ), otherwise at the end of a restoration, more has been spent than can ever likely be recouped. Some spend freely in order to achieve the best possible result, intending to keep the car forever, but sometimes one's circumstances can change unexpectedly and the hobby car has to be let go. I always feel sorry for those who lose out. We've all seen the ads - 'nut and bolt restoration, receipts for £60k, accept £30k o.n.o. Ouch!


I also feel sorry for those who buy cars 'fully restored' by those out to make money (dealers or private individuals) and end up discovering all the bodges, cover-ups and omissions shortly thereafter. Ouch, again!


I always start to become worried when the making of money intrudes into a hobby - it can exclude some, prevent friendships being forged and favours being done for fellow enthusiasts. I happen to believe that when you meet someone and discover them to be a fellow enthusiast, that person ceases to be a stranger and becomes a possible friend, maybe for life?
I've no problem with individuals/companies sourcing/making parts for use on classic cars and making a fair return on their investment/outlay - that's only reasonable, we need these guys and they help our hobby. The 'money grabbers' harm our hobby.

I certainly hope no one here thinks I was criticising them in any way, it's not in my nature. I was just throwing out an alternative view for consideration.

As regards the efforts of Spike64 in his restoration, I'm blown away (is this the modern term?) at his attention to detail and the standards he's achieving. His bodywork skills are first-class. :worship: I'm wondering if he perhaps works in this field??


And lest I forget, Peter is also working miracles on his 900e Amigo restoration :worship: - he may think I don't know about this thread, but I sneak a peak regularly. Well done, Peter!

AL.

Spike64 said:

This is the hose

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What is this hose made from?

It looks very similar to a large radiator top hose or Fiat fuel filler neck hose?

Can you give the dimensions?

There are companies that supply components to the Kit Car and Rally/ Motorsport which list Silicone hoses in various diameters and shapes - maybe they can supply something suitable (iirc Silicone hoses don't have to bright blue ).

AL.

Re:- Seat frames for the 500N, are there any of this model car in any car museum?

(although they probably wouldn't allow you to 'borrow' their seats and strip them down to copy ).

AL.

my replies will be in Aarons thread so as not to clutter up Andys Resto

F123C said:

What is this hose made from?

It looks very similar to a large radiator top hose or Fiat fuel filler neck hose?

Can you give the dimensions?

There are companies that supply components to the Kit Car and Rally/ Motorsport which list Silicone hoses in various diameters and shapes - maybe they can supply something suitable (iirc Silicone hoses don't have to bright blue ).

AL.

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It’s just simple old rubber

A very good source for "parts that can be made to fit is:--"Car Builder Solutions"---go onto their web-site and they will send you their (very comprehensive) catalogue --for FREE. I used this company whilst fitting out a "Trad-style" narrow boat (complete with a 1933 designed 2-cylinder, 22hp small marine diesel engine in its 'stand alone' engine room) and my '695' replica Abarth. Good company to deal with.
I completely agree with both Al and Aaron---sometimes it is more important to get the car back up and in use, even if it isn't 100% as 'out of the factory'. The vast majority of 500 owners have these car because they like them, not because they want to get them back to '100% as new' condition and then (hopefully) make a lot of money when they sell them. And before anyone gets too hot under the collar, I have immense admiration for the standard that some of the 500s ARE being restored too--I wish I had even a fraction of their skill.
I noticed Aaron that you mentioned that you want to have a tuned engine in your car---at the risk of "teaching you to suck eggs" if you would like to contact me direct, I will happily pass a copy onto you of what I have compiled for the build-up of a tuned 500/126 engine.

the hobbler said:

A very good source for "parts that can be made to fit is:--"Car Builder Solutions"---go onto their web-site and they will send you their (very comprehensive) catalogue --for FREE. I used this company whilst fitting out a "Trad-style" narrow boat (complete with a 1933 designed 2-cylinder, 22hp small marine diesel engine in its 'stand alone' engine room) and my '695' replica Abarth. Good company to deal with.
I completely agree with both Al and Aaron---sometimes it is more important to get the car back up and in use, even if it isn't 100% as 'out of the factory'. The vast majority of 500 owners have these car because they like them, not because they want to get them back to '100% as new' condition and then (hopefully) make a lot of money when they sell them. And before anyone gets too hot under the collar, I have immense admiration for the standard that some of the 500s ARE being restored too--I wish I had even a fraction of their skill.
I noticed Aaron that you mentioned that you want to have a tuned engine in your car---at the risk of "teaching you to suck eggs" if you would like to contact me direct, I will happily pass a copy onto you of what I have compiled for the build-up of a tuned 500/126 engine.

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I totally agree with you on all counts!! But I just love the challenge of the restoring the hell out of things then taking them to shows and have people stand and stare at the car for ages and then throw in the ultimate complement by saying I don’t get it,the owner must have more money than sense, and forget how they payed to get in the show and how long they wasted the time looking at it :slayer:

Thought I was going to have to buy new but these roof catches are cleaning up a treat .

Wow!!