I want to replace the door rubbers on my D as they have gone very dry and lost their smooth surface. Do any forum members have any experience of these parts from the various suppliers and/or any advice on fitting new seals. The D of course has the suicide doors.

All comments appreciated.

Cheers, Ian

Try 'Woolies'--they have a number of different sizes. I got brilliant service from them and they sent me small samples of 2 different sizes--HOWEVER, on a 500L, I eventually found that only the factory rubbers were the correct size; it might be different on a 500D. The sizes that I tried were (if I remember correctly) 266BLK (too small) and 266A (too big). There is another size, 265, which might do--sadly you just have to 'suck and see'. Whatever the outcome, I recommend that you get their (free) catalogue--it is a little gold-mine.

Thanks, Tom, I'll check that out

Ian

Hi Ian, I bought new D door rubbers from one of the main European suppliers, can't recall which one. That was 3 years ago now so things may have changed, but the parts I got then were not high quality. They were made up of multiple 400-500mm lengths welded together at the ends. I eventually went to a local business that supports the panelbeating trade. Armed with a small section of the old rubber it was easy enough to find an almost perfect match.
Cheers Roger

Ian;
Suddenly remembered where I got my door seals from--Ricambio International---they do door seals specifically for the 500D, made by Pirelli, they do one kit for the o/s door and one kit for the n/s door. If it is anything like the kits I got for my 500L, each side is 1 piece, reaches all the way round, with a bit to spare. Use a rubber hammer to (firmly) tap it on, with the joint at the middle of the bottom of the door aperture so that the joint is covered (and held in place) by the kick-plate

Thanks Roger, that is exactly the type of experience I was hoping forum members would pass on.

After the recent thread detailing the quality of some pattern parts that SteveHG, and others, had spoken about, I had put off ordering these rubbers. As always there seems to be a vast variation in price but this gives little, if any, guide to quality. The door rubbers had been replaced on the 500L we just got rid of and the doors needed a mighty slam to get them to close as the rubbers were far to big. In honesty I should have replaced them but that, and several other details I was unhappy with, made getting shot my preferred way out.:bang:

The doors on my D shut with such little effort and I don't want to lose that with shoddy replacement seals but these are, I suspect, quite possibly the originals and have lost most of their surface and break into granules when I clean the car.

Cheers, Ian

Thanks again, Tom. It does sound that if they are made by Pirelli they might be made to original spec regarding size which might not be the case with a pattern part copied somewhere in the Far East!

The seals on the D are glued into place all round the aperture. There is certainly quite a bit of cleaning up to do before re-glueing. I've read up and found that it is not a job to be rushed as, without proper and full adhesion, the seal can (will!) get torn where it pinches on the B post as the door closes.

Cheers, Ian

********.
I’ve made the mistake of trying to replace mine. Unfortunately it wasn’t until I had bought and removed both the old seals that I noticed the door didn’t sit flush. At the top front corner the gap is substantial. Around other edges there is little gap at all, meaning that my new, large rubbers are fine around the top edge but prevent the door closing fully around the bottom in particular.

Has anyone else had this experience?

Question I suppose is - is it simple to adjust the door alignment on the D rear hinges, or am I better off somehow trimming the rubber seals where they protrude too much? I know they will compress over time but at the moment I can’t even shut the door all the way, and the seal is the size it needs to be along the top of the door, just not elsewhere.

BambinoClassic said:

********.
I’ve made the mistake of trying to replace mine. Unfortunately it wasn’t until I had bought and removed both the old seals that I noticed the door didn’t sit flush. At the top front corner the gap is substantial. Around other edges there is little gap at all, meaning that my new, large rubbers are fine around the top edge but prevent the door closing fully around the bottom in particular.

Has anyone else had this experience?

Question I suppose is - is it simple to adjust the door alignment on the D rear hinges, or am I better off somehow trimming the rubber seals where they protrude too much? I know they will compress over time but at the moment I can’t even shut the door all the way, and the seal is the size it needs to be along the top of the door, just not elsewhere.

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Can you post some photos so we can get a better idea of your problem. I can take pictures or measurements from my cars if that might help you but I’m guessing we’ll need some advice from BigV and Sean on this situation.

Thanks for the advice. It’s a tricky one.
The first image shows the gap at the top of the door, quite sizeable but with it not quite all the way closed yet meeting significant resistance in the hinge area and the bottom of the doorway in particular.
If I lift the door up a little while I shut it, it becomes slightly easier.
Second image shows the seal bulging at the hinge - what a mess! But any smaller rubbers won’t work for the top part.
Very frustrating

first bit of advice......

don't use thicker door seals.... use the correct ones.. yes they do tend to be pricey

N doors are not normally adjustable..
the reason they tend not to fit is a twisted door or hinge... (or both)
caused by people hanging onto the door getting in and out
or by using thick door seals..
the door should not need excess pressure to close.. but people seem to think that a thick seal that they must compress will seal better.. in fact just 2mm is all that is required to seal.

so you need to decide if the door is twisted or the hinge bent (or on the pillar)
and looking at your pics you have a bent hinge... for starters.. (there should be a gap between the hinge and the bodywork)

remove the door seal.. close the door...
from inside look at the gap all around the door/aperture..
if the gap is wider at the top of the door front and rear then the hinge has been bent
or even the gaps at the front and rear of door are different)
if it is just wider at the front the door has twisted (far easier to twist the door to be honest than bend the hinge/pillar mounting
If the hinge/pillar is causing the problem then it may be that the metal will flex on the pillar making whatever change you make actually simply bend back.. as you would need to in effect bend the Hinge/pillar... so look for any signs of the metal being distorted in the hinge area (upper more than lower). How to bend it.. no idea but if the car was being restored the hinge could be taken off and re-welded.. so you can see how hard it would be to do that..
You can bend the hinge.. really be careful.. brute force and a large lump hammer.. block of wood.. and you have to hit the hinge...
Really a hard thing to judge,,, if the hinge has bent on the pillar or itself bent from it's normal angle..

However more likely it is the door is twisted...(hopefully)
again not the easiest thing to correct.. best done with all glass etc removed from the door..
and a bit of brute force, quite simply you have to work out a way to bend/twist the door.. in reality probably just the top part of the front window frame...
done similar on other cars... by keeping the door open by placing some wood at the bottom so the door is open about 10-20cm... then pressure .. only feel can be your judge.. is applied to the part of the frame where the door gap is wider and gently push the frame to bed the part of the door..
little at a time, closing the door to see if the gap has been closed up.

BambinoClassic said:

Thanks for the advice. It’s a tricky one.
The first image shows the gap at the top of the door, quite sizeable but with it not quite all the way closed yet meeting significant resistance in the hinge area and the bottom of the doorway in particular.
If I lift the door up a little while I shut it, it becomes slightly easier.
Second image shows the seal bulging at the hinge - what a mess! But any smaller rubbers won’t work for the top part.
Very frustrating

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Oh my! OK, First things first, lets talk about the seals: are your new seals of the correct type? It might sound like a daft question but did you order seals for a D, or simply for a 500? I ask this as the correct seal for a D is a solid rubber of approximately 15-18mm diameter with a flange welded on one edge, it actually looks like a lower case “a” when viewed end on whereas the seal for the later models have a hollow tube. It looks to me like yours are the later type. I was advised, by BigV, that the doors will distort very easily with the wrong rubbers fitted. Secondly, many replacement rubbers are made too big which can cause many of the same problems as above. My rubbers came, via BigV, from Passione500 who, I’m lead to believe, have the rubbers made for them.

Regarding the door fit. I don’t think you will have any luck trying to move the door hinges; they look pretty solid to me but then you mention that lifting the door as you close it helps it shut so maybe there is wear in the hinge pins? You can, of course, adjust the striker plate to alter how the door lines up at the front when closed but if the door opening is too big in one place I don’t really know what to suggest, maybe some clever work with a port-a-power ram but I think Sean would be better able to advise you regarding this area.

IanEmery said:

maybe there is wear in the hinge pins? .

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just noticed that... the hinge pins can be replaced but they may need drilling and oversize pins putting in.. and that isn't he easiest of things to do keeping everything straight...
People think abut putting harder metal pins in but long term that just means the actual hinges wear .. so not good.

if you are lucky you may get N/D door seals rather than Giardiniera ones... lol

I have had issues with this.
I replaced the hinge pins (not for the feint hearted) because doors wouldn't shut.
Turned out that oversized rubbers were the cause.
I simply stripped away the compressible section and it now closes perfectly on the push on strip remaining.
Note: I had the hinge pins welded in place when happy with the fit.

Thanks for the input - I should have mentioned that when I removed the old seals, the door didn't sit flush - there was that gap at the top corner in particular above the 1/4 windows.

However I didn't have to lift the door, so it may be a combination of the rubbers pushing it downwards and the door being twisted leaving that gap.

AndrewHarvey said:

I have had issues with this.
I replaced the hinge pins (not for the feint hearted) because doors wouldn't shut.
Turned out that oversized rubbers were the cause.
I simply stripped away the compressible section and it now closes perfectly on the push on strip remaining.
Note: I had the hinge pins welded in place when happy with the fit.

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I am somewhat faint hearted so keen to avoid playing with hinges, removing glass and twisting doors. I bought the oversized rubbers as I knew they were the smallest size that I could use to keep the top of the door watertight. Now I may be left with your solution Andrew!

Can I ask how you went about cutting it / what was left behind or did you remove the entire rubber bit, leaving only the pinch weld seal? I'm wondering if I should leave a small amount of the rubber even where it's tight, perhaps cut 3/4 of the 'a' shape out. And of course leave all the rubber along the top/front area!

Bear in mind that Andrew's car is one of those new-fangled types with the doors hinged from the front.
I can understand why you would be reluctant to undertake door or hinge bending , as I would be also. But I think it's worth putting in a bit more thought about that, as Bigv suggests; scary though it is.
Are there any cracks in the frame of the door which might indicate that it had been under strain in the past?

fiat500 said:

Bear in mind that Andrew's car is one of those new-fangled types with the doors hinged from the front.

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yet another reason not to buy one of these discontinued "Prototypes"...
Really wish I could swap mine for one of the later ones with all the problems of; over heating, fuel contamination, lack of performance, a fuel tank you don't have to top up every time you see a garage, and with the all the extras such as a proper rear seat, more luxurious interior.... and adjustable door hinges and locks..

Bigvtwin996 said:

yet another reason not to buy one of these discontinued "Prototypes"...
Really wish I could swap mine for one of the later ones with all the problems of; over heating, fuel contamination, lack of performance, a fuel tank you don't have to top up every time you see a garage, and with the all the extras such as a proper rear seat, more luxurious interior.... and adjustable door hinges and locks..

Click to expand...

You're right, never buy one of those early cars :nono:, but if you want to benefit from all the significant technical advances achieved by 1972, I would be prepared to take the knock and let you swap one of them for this rare, later beauty in the best colour.

DSC_5120 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr

fiat500 said:

Are there any cracks in the frame of the door which might indicate that it had been under strain in the past?

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It looks really clean, and I’ve had my head in there plenty lately, so I’m not sure what could’ve caused it to twist ever so slightly. The rubbers were only $25 or so a side, so I may try a gradual process of thinning out until I get a shutting door without losing the seal.

fiat500 said:

You're right, never buy one of those early cars :nono:, but if you want to benefit from all the significant technical advances achieved by 1972, I would be prepared to take the knock and let you swap one of them for this rare, later beauty in the best colour.

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now that really is a beauty.. a car that shows it has been "loved, cherished and finally abused"...
Speaking of which.. Sean keeps threatening a return with his latest rust bucket.....
he may be able to make a comment when he comes to fit his doors...