When Is Undertaking Not Undertaking?

[Troubles with 500c]

Exactly how many people have been done for undertaking? Probably similar in number to those caught hogging the middle lane.

I agree that weaving in and out of lanes is dangerous, but I tend to make my undertakes by accident. Those hogging the right lanes tend to fluctuate their speed and if I’m maintaining my speed in the inside lane and go past, that’s not undertaking in my book.

 

[The Panda Nut]

When you're driving in Taiwan

And when your cremated

 

[sludgeguts]

Pity the traffic police dont agree with your view, and you can get done for it.

Actually, traffic police won't. I've had occasion to drive along the motorway in a minibus, limited to 62mph. On 2 occasions, I happened across a car dawdling along in lane 2. Given that my top speed was 62mph and I could catch them up and overtake on the left, their speed was well below, probably around 50mph.
Since I wasn't allowed in lane 3, what was I supposed to do? The law is quite clear on what I'm not allowed to do - not allowed in lane 3 & not allowed to pull out behind the lane hog and intimidate him into pulling over.
So I simply drove on by in lane 1.
Funnily enough, on both occasions, the idiot in lane 2 decided to report me to plod - well, easy to do since the company name and number was [plastered all over the vehicle.
On both occasions I had plod paying me a visit at work. Fortunately, I always drive with a dashcam and I always save any footage where my driving might be called into question.
So, knowing plod would be calling back, I dropped the relevant files onto a thumb drive for plod to view on our computer at work. The cam records in 3 minute sections and I made sure to get plenty of the before sections so plod could see just how long I was in lane 1 for - and just how empty lane 1 was.
On both occasions, plod agreed with my actions (driving by in lane 1, keeping my speed steady all the way) and said that they would be having strong words with the idiots that had reported me.

Had those traffic police decided I had done wrong I could've easily defended my actions in court.
How stupid would it be for me to drop my speed to match the idiot in lane 2, thereby creating a rolling road block, forcing everything coming up behind at 70 to throw out the anchors and try to get into lane 3 as well as creating miles of tailbacks from all the vehicles not allowed into lane 3


BTW, plod also said to me that "undertaking generally involves a wooden box, a long black vehicle and several people crying" whereas overtaking on the left is moving out from behind the vehicle in lane 2, passing them in lane 1 and moving back out into lane 2, the opposite of a normal overtake.

 

[portland_bill]

BTW, plod also said to me that "undertaking generally involves a wooden box, a long black vehicle and several people crying" whereas overtaking on the left is moving out from behind the vehicle in lane 2, passing them in lane 1 and moving back out into lane 2, the opposite of a normal overtake.

Absolutely. Incorrect use of the word when describing overtaking on the left.
Over-take is to pass someone, to go ahead. Whichever side is immaterial.
Conversely, undertake, in a driving context, might mean slowing abruptly perhaps, so that the other vehicle passes you, without meaning to?

 

[g8rpi]

On my only viable route home from one direction there is a 1-2 mile section of dual carriageway with 4 lanes. Lane 1 becomes exit only but to local destinations only (my exit). So you get lots of trucks in lane 2 doing 50-60 mph. Then the middle lane hoggers in lane 3 and a mixture of high speed car and some trucks passing them in lane 4. I won't pass the trucks to the left (unless speed drops below 30 mph) and there really is not time to move out , overtake and move back in because if you are baulked you miss the exit.
Some drivers get annoyed that you won't pass but I've seen too many cars shoved off the road by a truck moving left. In reality it makes no difference to journy time because there is a junction at the end of the exit slip and you just join the queue sooner.

Then there are the van and pickup drivers who don't know, or do't care that the speed limit for these vehicles is 50 mph on single carriageways and 60 on dual. This applies to any van or pickup over 2050kg max gross weight and explains why some small vans like the Transit Connect are available as different models some with a 2050kg mgvw.
Lots of people are buying fancy pickups as company vehicles because of a loophole in the company car tax rules. There seems to be no enforcement of these commercial vehicle speed limits.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Problem is that when towing Lane 3 is not legally available to you. So if you stay left and pass (slow and carefully) you are breaking the law. If you go right and pass you are breaking the law. If you are in a large towing vehicle with bull bar protection and you shove them up the rear you are breaking the law. If you are KIT the Knight 2000 car and Turbo Boost over the top of them you will get done for dangerous driving, low flying without ATC authorisation or worse still leaving the motorway at a non-approved exit

Just get up and go the the police station. Cut out the middle man.

 

[portland_bill]

Then there are the van and pickup drivers who don't know, or do't care that the speed limit for these vehicles is 50 mph on single carriageways and 60 on dual. This applies to any van or pickup over 2050kg max gross weight and explains why some small vans like the Transit Connect are available as different models some with a 2050kg mgvw.
Lots of people are buying fancy pickups as company vehicles because of a loophole in the company car tax rules. There seems to be no enforcement of these commercial vehicle speed limits.

The Highway Code still states 2 tonnes as the cutoff. It also states that the higher limits for cars also only applies to car-derived vans. That would exclude most small vans anyway, as they are not car-derived. However, somewhere on the gov website, I have seen a statement that it does include small vans, such as the Doblo and Kangoo, etc., but at the time I viewed it, I was not on my own computer, and had no means to print the page. Since then, I've not been able to find it again. A 2050kg GVW van would have to comply with the lower limits.

My Doblo is a car, so although over 2000kg GVW, is still a car. Silly isn't it. Motorhomes have different rules, despite being heavy, and often driven by incompetents.

Pickups are difficult. Many of the double-cab ones can be registered as cars, or as dual-purpose, allowing the higher limits. But if registered as commercial, they have the lower limits. As you say, most police forces do not enforce these limits, but some are actually quite hot on them. Devon & Cornwall, Hampshire, Wales and Cheshire do enforce these. I've met a few people who have the tickets to prove it, having had a holiday spoilt. A few yeas ago, I wrote to Wiltshire police asking if they were enforcing this. (Triggered by a week of arrogant pickups) Their reply was that they had other priorities.

Some pickups are used for work purposes, but at least the drivers of the shiny ones are, by their presence, warning us of their potential risk.

 

[mowermender70]

hi pb its everywhere or road is a twenty mph road here in west wales twice know have been caught by a pickups wing mirror and knocked into the bank this is a narrow lane 95% use it as a short cut 44 ton lorrys law does nothing mowermender

 

[g8rpi]

Hi PB,
The statute says 2050kg I guess it is rounded up from two old Tons (2 x 1016 kg = 2032). It's not very clear on "dual purpose" vehicles but it appears that even that exemption only applies to vehicles under the two ton limit. Certainly "car derived" has this limit hence the Doblo for example is available as 2030 kg or 2400 kg gvw. Very few modern pick-ups are under 2T. No standard size "transit" van is under 2T so there should be no confusion for the police there. Landrovers used to have a specific exemption in the Construction & Use regulations as dual purpose. I seriously considered getting a SIII LWB 12 seater just so I could drive in the bus lanes .
Motorhomes are only allowed the higher speeds IF under 3.05 tons AND not being used commercially. Commercial use includes transporting goods fo sale or exhibition, as a workshop or for storage. No mention of "by way of trade". So speed limit may depend on what you are doing on a particular trip.

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

 

[portland_bill]

Hi PB,
The statute says 2050kg I guess it is rounded up from two old Tons (2 x 1016 kg = 2032). It's not very clear on "dual purpose" vehicles but it appears that even that exemption only applies to vehicles under the two ton limit. Certainly "car derived" has this limit hence the Doblo for example is available as 2030 kg or 2400 kg gvw. Very few modern pick-ups are under 2T. No standard size "transit" van is under 2T so there should be no confusion for the police there. Landrovers used to have a specific exemption in the Construction & Use regulations as dual purpose. I seriously considered getting a SIII LWB 12 seater just so I could drive in the bus lanes .
Motorhomes are only allowed the higher speeds IF under 3.05 tons AND not being used commercially. Commercial use includes transporting goods fo sale or exhibition, as a workshop or for storage. No mention of "by way of trade". So speed limit may depend on what you are doing on a particular trip.

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

The link you have given, relating to speed limits, still refers to 2 tonnes, not 2030kg. I have no idea where you are getting those higher figures from, and they contradict the rules published in the Highway Code, and the gov page from your link.
From your link, there's another link to the construction and use regs, which are difficult to navigate and understand, as they are written in legalspeak instead of English. I've often thought that is the general public are expected to know and abide by laws, they should be written in a manner that the public can easily understand, but as they're written by lawyers, one cannot expect plain English.
Following more links on the gov website, I am still unable to find any reference to those numbers you are quoting.
To me it is simple, the Highway Code says 2 tonnes, so a Doblo, or similar with a GVW of 2030kg is above that threshold.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Exactly how many people have been done for undertaking? Probably similar in number to those caught hogging the middle lane.

I agree that weaving in and out of lanes is dangerous, but I tend to make my undertakes by accident. Those hogging the right lanes tend to fluctuate their speed and if I’m maintaining my speed in the inside lane and go past, that’s not undertaking in my book.

Dont think you shoul brake to avoid this situation. I try to keep passing speeds to within 10mph or so to enable instant avoidance changes. Its a shame the police cant poluce middle lane hoggers, but its almost impossible.

 

[portland_bill]

Dont think you shoul brake to avoid this situation. I try to keep passing speeds to within 10mph or so to enable instant avoidance changes. Its a shame the police cant poluce middle lane hoggers, but its almost impossible.

No, please no braking. If lifting the accelerator does not fix it, go on by.
The speed variation of others is usually gentle, so gaining on them should not be a surprise. I've been in similar situations, and have just gone by. I've not overtaken, they've lost speed.
Braking on motorways and dual carriageways should be limited to necessity, most speed changes should be able to be done by use of the accelerator, as it does work both ways. Views ahead are good, or should be if following distances are kept, so surprises should be rare. (if only)
When brakes are used on faster roads, others tend to overreact. One car dabs the brakes, the one behind reacts first, without thinking, or assessing the amount of retardation, another reacts to the first two, and it snowballs. Each car has to brake a little more than the one ahead, and a mile or so back, everything stops. We've all experienced this, and it is due to unnecessary braking, caused by a lack of necessary observation, space management, and thinking.

 

[vexorg]

caused by a lack of necessary observation, space management, and thinking.

And if you leave safe space in front that allows for slowing without braking to keep the flow going better, then you either get someone jumping in, or the car behind about 2 inches from your bumper.

 

[The Panda Nut]

And if you leave safe space in front that allows for slowing without braking to keep the flow going better, then you either get someone jumping in, or the car behind about 2 inches from your bumper.

But keep doing it right and maybe it might rub off. Its certainly safer.

 

[g8rpi]

The link you have given, relating to speed limits, still refers to 2 tonnes, not 2030kg. I have no idea where you are getting those higher figures from, and they contradict the rules published in the Highway Code, and the gov page from your link.
From your link, there's another link to the construction and use regs, which are difficult to navigate and understand, as they are written in legalspeak instead of English. I've often thought that is the general public are expected to know and abide by laws, they should be written in a manner that the public can easily understand, but as they're written by lawyers, one cannot expect plain English.
Following more links on the gov website, I am still unable to find any reference to those numbers you are quoting.
To me it is simple, the Highway Code says 2 tonnes, so a Doblo, or similar with a GVW of 2030kg is above that threshold.

Sorry Bill didn't see your post.
The 2040kg figure comes from the definition of a dual purpose vehicle in the construction and use regulations. I'm pretty sure it is a rounding up from two imperial tons (long ton) which is 2032.1 kg.
Rhe regulation is here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3/made
This gov website links dual purpose vehicles to speed https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits and the legislation is here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/schedule/6
It looks like I was incorrect in saying 2050kg rather than 2040kg. In my defence a lot of web references also say 2050kg AND this is a common plated MGVW on small vans.
The higway code is not law and the site I linked too says "Vehicles under 2 tonnes laden (loaded) weight may qualify as a ‘car-derived van’ or ‘dual-purpose vehicle’. These vehicles have the same speed limits as cars."
As 2 Tonnes (metric) is under 2050kg it is correct. The link in the .Gov page also says a car derived van must weigh under 2 Tonnes BUT it also refers to DUAL PURPOSE vehicles with a link to the construction and use legislation which says "A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen,..." and a link to the C&U regulations. Not the C&U regs do not define a van or car derived van.
All very confusing. But clearly any pick-up truck with a plated maximum weight of 2050kg or more is restricted to 60MPH on a dual carriageway and 50MPH on single.

 

[Greasytrucker]

And if you leave safe space in front that allows for slowing without braking to keep the flow going better, then you either get someone jumping in, or the car behind about 2 inches from your bumper.

Don’t get me started on the w️s that dive in if you leave any more than a fag packet gap in front of you. Problem is too many satnav monkeys about now, they don’t look at road signs, and don’t know where they are. Vehicles darting off across the chevrons because satnav has just told them it’s there junction……and they’re still in lane 3 is common place. The fact that I’ve got 28t of load behind me and I can’t stop on a sixpence isn’t on there mind!

 

[Greasytrucker]

But keep doing it right and maybe it might rub off. Its certainly safer.

Will never happen unfortunately, the days of the considerate driver are long gone. Problem is it’s not just cars driving like A’holes like it used to be, too many vans and trucks without a second to live as well now

 

[The Panda Nut]

Will never happen unfortunately, the days of the considerate driver are long gone. Problem is it’s not just cars driving like A’holes like it used to be, too many vans and trucks without a second to live as well now

Sadly you are right. And all the people pee'd off because they just wrecked their car on a pothole this morning too.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Sorry Bill didn't see your post.
The 2040kg figure comes from the definition of a dual purpose vehicle in the construction and use regulations. I'm pretty sure it is a rounding up from two imperial tons (long ton) which is 2032.1 kg.
Rhe regulation is here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3/made
This gov website links dual purpose vehicles to speed https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits and the legislation is here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/schedule/6
It looks like I was incorrect in saying 2050kg rather than 2040kg. In my defence a lot of web references also say 2050kg AND this is a common plated MGVW on small vans.
The higway code is not law and the site I linked too says "Vehicles under 2 tonnes laden (loaded) weight may qualify as a ‘car-derived van’ or ‘dual-purpose vehicle’. These vehicles have the same speed limits as cars."
As 2 Tonnes (metric) is under 2050kg it is correct. The link in the .Gov page also says a car derived van must weigh under 2 Tonnes BUT it also refers to DUAL PURPOSE vehicles with a link to the construction and use legislation which says "A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen,..." and a link to the C&U regulations. Not the C&U regs do not define a van or car derived van.
All very confusing. But clearly any pick-up truck with a plated maximum weight of 2050kg or more is restricted to 60MPH on a dual carriageway and 50MPH on single.

Any Po-leecemen please take note!

 

[portland_bill]

And if you leave safe space in front that allows for slowing without braking to keep the flow going better, then you either get someone jumping in, or the car behind about 2 inches from your bumper.

I didn't say it was easy.