endrop - for all your online needs

Technical Recent car bought, terrible problems

Currently reading:
Technical Recent car bought, terrible problems

Cuppatea

Cuppatea

New member
Joined
Feb 15, 2024
Messages
20
Points
32
Location
Bath
Hi,

I bought a fiat 500 two days ago, the seller (a trader) has gone AWOL and I am left with a car that has failed it's MOT.

I paid £3k for a 2011 fiat 500 and it has a number of major MOT defects

1. Suspension Spring mount corroded (I think rear) please see photo of the issue [5.3.6(a)(ii)]

2. Engine mil inoperative or indicate a malfunction [8.2.1.2(h)]

3. Electronic power steering, system malfunction [2.6(a)]

In your opinion, how much would you think it would cost for a garage to resolve these issues? Am I just throwing good money after bad?


IMG-20240215-WA0007.jpg
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
vexorg said:
I cant see how you'd buy a car from a trader without an MOT unless it's advertised as such.
Click to expand...

The OP had already told us this:

Cuppatea said:
...which clearly said that there were only a few days left on the MOT
Click to expand...

So no misrepresentation on this point. But I'd agree the OP has been scammed. We've been told the seller claimed to be a dealer, and it's a criminal offence for a dealer to sell an unroadworthy car (which it clearly was at the time of sale).
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
vexorg said:
In all honesty, I cant remember the last time.


It wasn't a rhetoric question, I cant see how you'd buy a car from a trader without an MOT unless it's advertised as such.

Bottom line without any details on the trader is you've been scammed. If they are legit then you may have some come back.
Click to expand...
There was a case near us where the seller was selling cars from a lay-by near some houses and selling on the usual sites as different traders… then disappeared after selling dodgy motors. They did catch up with him and ordered him to repay, unfortunately many folk were left with dribs and drab’s payments, as he’d spent his I’ll-gotten gains as fast as he made them
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Awful thing to happen to you!! Unfortunately it’s more common than most ppl think
I remember buying my 500 a few years back from a “reputable” dealership in Selby North Yorkshire….. I paid 8500 for mine very low miles and only 36k … low for a 2011
I had nothing but problems…… and my front brakes had very very little meat on them!!!
Meaning! No brakes .. no life!
However I decided to roll my sleeves up and sort my issues one by one! Saving on labour!
Although I’ve never had to replace a rear beam it is doable… but not if you have only just bought a car!
If I had to buy a car again .. a 500 for instance…. I’d be all over the car like a pidgin on a pasty .. 🤣
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Baglady1990 said:
Although I’ve never had to replace a rear beam it is doable… but not if you have only just bought a car!
Click to expand...

...and it gets harder quite quickly if any of the bolts shear off.

I've looked at the picture of the spring pan again, and it really is in a shocking state.

The rear beam can be replaced, but I'd also be concerned about how much other corrosion there was on the underside of this car. I'd be surprised if it wasn't necessary to replace most if not all of the rear hydraulics; I can't imagine that any of the parts attached to that beam will come loose easily.

I wonder what state the sump is in?

The bill for sorting this car out could start rising pretty steeply once someone has gotten into the job.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
jrkitching said:
...and it gets harder quite quickly if any of the bolts shear off.

I've looked at the picture of the spring pan again, and it really is in a shocking state.

The rear beam can be replaced, but I'd also be concerned about how much other corrosion there was on the underside of this car. I'd be surprised if it wasn't necessary to replace most if not all of the rear hydraulics; I can't imagine that any of the parts attached to that beam will come loose easily.

I wonder what state the sump is in?

The bill for sorting this car out could start rising pretty steeply once someone has gotten into the job.
Click to expand...
If it is just a basic or fairly standard model then it could be a straight forward swap from another car and some new brake pipes if unions do break.

I agree though it looks pretty rough and cost could escalate rapidly. We still don't know about the steering and MIL light issues, does it need a new steering column ? is there anything wrong with the engine ?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Does the power steering work?
You can find someone with a generic code reader and get the engine fault code out.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
jrkitching said:
...and it gets harder quite quickly if any of the bolts shear off.

I've looked at the picture of the spring pan again, and it really is in a shocking state.

The rear beam can be replaced, but I'd also be concerned about how much other corrosion there was on the underside of this car. I'd be surprised if it wasn't necessary to replace most if not all of the rear hydraulics; I can't imagine that any of the parts attached to that beam will come loose easily.

I wonder what state the sump is in?

The bill for sorting this car out could start rising pretty steeply once someone has gotten into the job.
Click to expand...

If "my nephew/niece" for example had got in this predicament.. I would ask MOT station if plating those spring pans would be acceptable


Probably @£120 job,
but you get your free retest, and the chance to legally drive a 500 for 6+ months

If you hate it.. Or it's a dog.. You haven't spent Lots getting it fixed

A good battery ( and a £15 earth cable) could well sort its other current issues

If the OP wasnt an hour away.. I would offer to give it a proper evaluation
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
AndyRKett said:
I think you need to elaborate on the circumstances a bit more, you bought a car 2 days ago from a “trader” without an MOT, then took it to MOT yourself ?

When you say this person has gone AWOL I presume they don’t work from a premises? Are they actually a car dealer or a bloke who sells cars on the side? While the definition of trader may still apply if you bought the car off a bloke on the side of the road with no MOT, paid cash and have no record of who this person is then all your options are likely to be severely limited.

And also why would you buy a car for £3k without having it checked over or without an MOT !?

Anyway in answer to your actual question it’s impossible to say whether you’d be throwing good money after bad as there may be a lot of other issues that have not appeared yet or that might be all the problems.

I’d expect to pay £500 maybe more for a new rear axle installed, I would not have it welded
Click to expand...
I agree with you Andy in that I don't think welding is the answer. You'd probably get away with welding the spring pans but the axle itself is a "twist beam" so probably not made from simple mild steel and may well be weakened or made brittle by welding. I've mentioned before that Becky will be needing a new rear axle soon, almost certainly this year. So, although I'm hoping to do it myself, I thought I'd ask my local Fiat indy for a quote. Around the £600 mark - providing nothing goes horrendously wrong when removing the old one. Understandably he said it's really all down to how it comes apart and he's reluctant to give a firm price because of this. If it "falls apart" it might well be less but if studs/bolts start snapping off in large numbers it could well be more as he'd charge a job like this at an hourly rate. I've definitely decided I'll either be doing it myself or perhaps, if she passes her MOT in March I may just calling it a day with her, sell her on and start looking for a replacement. I'm very undecided at this moment because I've become "emotionally involved" with her over the years.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
As above, if it goes well, then probably about £600 at a good local garage. If it's really bad, probably nearer £900.
I've done a few now (mostly Pandas), and they do vary widely, and I now usually build up a complete unit (with new pipes, cables, shoes, drums etc) to cut down the time spent actually doing the swap.

Although, if I was doing it in these circumstances I would be tempted to get a complete second hand beam (with all brakes, pipes, handbrake cables etc.) from a good supplier (club500italia maybe?) and trade the warm feeling of a brand new beam against the reduced labour costs and risk, as it then becomes a simple quick meccano job (probably plus a couple of brake pipes).
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
irc said:
As above, if it goes well, then probably about £600 at a good local garage. If it's really bad, probably nearer £900.
I've done a few now (mostly Pandas), and they do vary widely, and I now usually build up a complete unit (with new pipes, cables, shoes, drums etc) to cut down the time spent actually doing the swap.

Although, if I was doing it in these circumstances I would be tempted to get a complete second hand beam (with all brakes, pipes, handbrake cables etc.) from a good supplier (club500italia maybe?) and trade the warm feeling of a brand new beam against the reduced labour costs and risk, as it then becomes a simple quick meccano job (probably plus a couple of brake pipes).
Click to expand...
Good solution I think. from all we've been told the car doesn't sound as if it's been "loved" so is almost certainly not a "keeper" anyway.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
irc said:
Although, if I was doing it in these circumstances I would be tempted to get a complete second hand beam (with all brakes, pipes, handbrake cables etc.) from a good supplier (club500italia maybe?) and trade the warm feeling of a brand new beam against the reduced labour costs and risk, as it then becomes a simple quick meccano job (probably plus a couple of brake pipes).
Click to expand...
That was my thinking.

The more is left undisturbed the better.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Cuppatea said:
Hi,

I bought a fiat 500 two days ago, the seller (a trader) has gone AWOL and I am left with a car that has failed it's MOT.

I paid £3k for a 2011 fiat 500 and it has a number of major MOT defects

1. Suspension Spring mount corroded (I think rear) please see photo of the issue [5.3.6(a)(ii)]

2. Engine mil inoperative or indicate a malfunction [8.2.1.2(h)]

3. Electronic power steering, system malfunction [2.6(a)]

In your opinion, how much would you think it would cost for a garage to resolve these issues? Am I just throwing good money after bad?


View attachment 438309
Click to expand...
Can I ask one other thing….have you had or seen the v5 document for this car?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
vexorg said:
Does the power steering work?
You can find someone with a generic code reader and get the engine fault code out.
Click to expand...
The power steering does work when I switch on city mode. But the MOT centre did say that it has some kind of problem.

To be honest, I did not understand what the chap said
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
icheatatscrabble said:
I have no experience of this fault reader (I have an Autel one), but it is cheap and cheerful and it can clear faults, as well as diagnose them.
Only £17:

Click to expand...
I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, the more suggestions put forward the better in my opinion. However the "track record" for cheap scanners/code readers when used on our Fiats is not good. There are many posts I've read over the years from people who have been misled by their results.

It would be great if someone with MES could help out here, not just because the results obtained using MES can be trusted but also because any forum member having MES is likely to be someone who knows their Fiats and therefore would be able to give our OP an informed opinion on the rest of the car thus enabling the OP to make a decision as to whether going ahead with possibly expensive repair work is worth doing?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
Technical Just bought it
Replies
3
Views
266
John202020
John202020
M
Technical Problems with 1st Gear
Replies
3
Views
223
John202020
John202020
Mikefraser93
Technical Fiat 500 voltage problems
Replies
15
Views
582
Mikefraser93
Mikefraser93
C
General Just bought a 2017 500c - questions about the Uconnect system
Replies
5
Views
645
cheniesboy
C
Mikefraser93
Technical Engine problems cant solve!
2
Replies
32
Views
2K
Mikefraser93
Mikefraser93
Back
Top