Technical Parts Obsolete,!!
- Thread starter Toadie
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Technical Parts Obsolete,!!
The flame start ‘devices’ are nothing new, our old case backhoe loader had one…it was a hotch-potch of David Brown tractor engine, manufactured in France with ‘Fiat’ stamped chassis…and the relay for the flame start was a lucas bimetallic affair that operated over 8-10 seconds
Maybe, just maybe, it may be possible to match one up at a Farm supplies place, we replaced the Case/Lucas one but that was about six years ago, HOWEVER, there is a market for these bits on even very old kit…Malpas online may give you an idea
Maybe, just maybe, it may be possible to match one up at a Farm supplies place, we replaced the Case/Lucas one but that was about six years ago, HOWEVER, there is a market for these bits on even very old kit…Malpas online may give you an idea
Did you read the explanation of the flame start system, as it also explains how to hard wire a switch in, there’s also an article (same explanation I think) on the talbot express forum!
Get the number and make, off the relay…
I’ve got to go to the farm services later, so will ask if there is one used on any farm machinery and if there’s any cross compatibility…worth a try
Get the number and make, off the relay…
I’ve got to go to the farm services later, so will ask if there is one used on any farm machinery and if there’s any cross compatibility…worth a try
I’ve just cross referenced that on the tinterweb, strangely it doesn’t mention the 2.8 but it does look identicalCommercial vehicles get rather more difficult to source spares for than cars, due to the number of variations. Without details of your vehicle, we can only guess, but from the pics, this one looks similar.
HELLA Glow Plug Relay 5 PIN / Fiat Ducato Motorhome 1994 to 2002 2.5 Diesel | eBay
One Glow Plug Relay for Fiat Ducato 2.5 Diesel engines. Does not fit petrols or Diesel 1.9 or 2.8 Diesel engines. All versions of 2.5 Diesel from 1994 to 2002.www.ebay.co.uk
Don't forget, you can look at Peugeot and Citroen too.
This post contains affiliate links which may earn a commission at no additional cost to you.
got part number, armed and ready for farm services relay (131) 46751765
Cross referenced with 2.5, just in case, as that relay is available, can’t find, which is odd, also doesn’t cross reference with 2.5 or 2.8 iveco, which is even odder! I can’t see it being unique to one model…
So will see if it cross references with Case/New Holland as older ‘modern’ ones have some Fiat engines (Fiat and Sofim), later have Iveco, latest FPT
Cross referenced with 2.5, just in case, as that relay is available, can’t find, which is odd, also doesn’t cross reference with 2.5 or 2.8 iveco, which is even odder! I can’t see it being unique to one model…
So will see if it cross references with Case/New Holland as older ‘modern’ ones have some Fiat engines (Fiat and Sofim), later have Iveco, latest FPT
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I would like to examine that statement in detail.
The photos posted earlier show that the control unit has seven connections which are, two high current studs for the flame starter supply, and a five pole flat blade connector.
In addittion to the high current connections, the unit needs
1. An ACC+ supply from the ignition switch to start operation.
2. An earth (-ve) connection for its electronics.
3. A connection from the starter solenoid to initiate shutdown.
4. Connection for "glowplug" indication light.
5. A connection to a temperature sensor, to limit operation to temperatures below 5C.
I accept that function 5 above may be implemented internally, but this does not leave much scope for sending power to other bits, with the exception of the flame starter.
Do you now mean to say the auto electrician states problem with starter motor relay?
If yes please post photo of starter motor relay - so we can try and work out what is going on .
There is a huge amount of experience accross a number of members trying to help you.
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All is goodAs the engine in question has been confirmed as a 2.8idTD, it will have a flame starter.devce, which embodies a special glowplug.
The same basic system is used on the succeding 2.8jtd, but which has an ECU and sensor to provide temperature sensing, and appropriate timing function. The 2.8idTD had only a simple ECU for the EGR option control.
Something is needed to provide the control function for the flame start device on the 2.8idTD. A standard glowplug control may help, but two stages are required for correct operation, as the glowplug needs to be hot before fuel is injected into the inlet manifold.
I also would not expect the flame start device to be initiated in a UK su
mmer. I am wondering whether, that as the idTD will probably have lower injection pressures the jtd, fuel droplets will be larger. This would not improve cold starting performance. Perhaps @bugsymike has some views on this as he is/was a 2.8 owner?
Is that the corresponding plug in the background?
Right…I’ve been to farm services and the hella five pin is not compatible with the the 2.8, nor is the febi/bilstien five pin relay, which is for the 1.9…there isn’t one tractor with the 2.8 5pin relay, nor is there one with the 7pin as fitted to Fiat/PSA, they’re not sure as to Iveco applications as engine fitment looks like a smorgasbord of if and wehn the tractor adopted the engines (on plant as well, eg dumpers n diggers) and called them Iveco or gave them their own ref number.
It really does look like this was the only application for this relay, the only cross reference 598139 is on a CZ site, RinoParts, which states ‘not available’.
So, it’s either a rewire job or a used part, sorry
If old part is scrap and nothing available, maybe your auto electrician can cut it open to find what parts do what and modify another relay to do what you need to get engine started. It is what I would do as beats walking
Same here,If old part is scrap and nothing available, maybe your auto electrician can cut it open to find what parts do what and modify another relay to do what you need to get engine started. It is what I would do as beats walking
Use wiring diagram to trace switching and compare with later type 5 pin glow plug relay, the power capacity will be compatible, but you can always stick a fuse inline if you’re worried
Then ensure the inputs/outputs match for wiring on new
or…
strip down existing relay
…find the switching cables for the flame start and wire in a ride-on-mower starter relay to a push switch on dash.
That will take care of the high power side.
Then it’s a case of ensuring inputs and outputs go to the other components, either by adding a standard relay or via ignition switch
Or get your auto-sparky
I've found one used on a Polish equivalent of ebay for less than 4 GBP + postage.
PM me if you need any help with the purchase
PM me if you need any help with the purchase
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Do let us know what you findThank you so much for trying I really appreciate it