Technical Panda 169 New Throttle Body question

[atakan123123]

Greetings everyone, this will be a bit complicated explanation.

-Previous fault lamp, irregular operation, stalling.
I had problems.
I determined that the map and eccentric cable were broken and repaired them.

-I detected some vacuum leaks. I fixed it.


Despite these, I thought my idling was not very good. I don't trust iacv very much. When I disassembled it before to clean it, the plastic came off easily. It has worn out over the years.


-While I was investigating the first malfunction above, I also purchased the throttle body.


Now I decided to assemble it.

After installing it, the idling performance of the car increased significantly.
The vehicle started to reach idle speed much more easily and quickly.So yes, my problem was here and it was fixed. I experienced very positive developments. The time I have to wait for the car to idle while stopping, starting and maneuvering has decreased.



Problem;

• I guess he didn't recognize the new throttle body correctly.
• Sometimes the idle remains constant at 1400 rpm. (Too high) (I'm not talking about the automatic choke procedure)
• In general, it stays healthy at 800 rpm.
• Sometimes it is wavy like 800-500 -800-500rpm. It works.

But despite its choppy operation, it never knocks or tends to stall. So my vacuum circuit is very healthy.

The LPG circuit is a retrofitted circuit. When running on LPG, the rpm is currently around 1500. I need to go to the service to set this up. But the problems I am talking about now are the events that occur when the LPG system is turned off and the vehicle is started on gasoline.​

Question;

• Is there any automatic identification procedure that I know of? Or is there?

-Remove the terminal - Reconnect after the new throttle body. (20 minutes no energy)

• Also, when I disassembled the old TB, I observed that it was quite oily. There may be too much oil coming from the vapor recovery pipe.

 

[MrMagoo]

Have you changed the spark plugs?

 

[MrMagoo]

... and I believe LPG cars run hotter and need cooler plugs?

 

[atakan123123]

Great,

It's nothing to do with vacuum
The reading say there is no vacuum detected, the physical tests show there is no vacuum leak, let's move on

Very unlikely to be crank sensor, it should show drop outs in the graphs.
Let's move on

The ECU changes the running slightly when the air conditioning is on to compensate for the load

Have you cleared the self learnt functions and self adaption parameters yet.

With the compressor off, If you add an electrical load by turning the headlights and rear heated windscreen on does the bad idle remain or go away

Yes, I also reset the self-learning program.

and I performed the procedure again.

I forgot to mention this.

 

[atakan123123]

I replaced the crank sensor. still bad.

I changed the spark plugs. still bad.

Spark plugs can be seen in the photo.
3. The spark plug porcelain of the cylinder is white.

I think this is a bad thing.

Since I haven't measured compression recently, I didn't measure it again.

Apart from that, I received the following advice.

I'm thinking of removing the oxygen sensors and measuring them.

And I'm thinking of examining the catalyst with the endoscope camera.

 

[MrMagoo]

Is the LPG an aftermarket kit?
I'd want to ensure the engine is running correctly without it first.

 

[koalar]

Cylinder 3 is not firing correctly

Look at the centre insulator

 

[atakan123123]

Is the LPG an aftermarket kit?
I'd want to ensure the engine is running correctly without it first.

LPG is an aftermarket kit.
The car has 130k km. LPG has been installed for 60k km.

It causes the same problem on both gasoline and LPG.

The car runs smoothly while driving. Its performance is quite good. I only have this problem at idle.

Cylinder 3 is not firing correctly

Look at the centre insulator

Let's take a look at this situation
1) On the ignition coil or ignition cable
2) Cylinder seal (water entering the cylinder)
3) Could the injector not be delivering enough fuel?


If it continues like this, I will try to replace the gasket very soon.

I marked the water level. I try to travel around 50-60km every day.

I will check if there is a decrease in the water level.

 

[koalar]

Let's take a look at this situation
1) On the ignition coil or ignition cable
2) Cylinder seal (water entering the cylinder)
3) Could the injector not be delivering enough fuel?

1,2,3 all correct

If it continues like this, I will try to replace the gasket very soon.

I marked the water level. I try to travel around 50-60km every day.

I will check if there is a decrease in the water level.

We know cylinder 3 isn't right

If the cylinder wasn't firing at all, the unused slug of air would be seen by the O2 sensor and the ECU would have increased the fueling making the other plugs very black which they aren't

If you kept your old spark plugs, you can put an old one in cylinder 3 and see if it gets steam cleaned first

Then just a matter of swap parts over and inspecting the plug until cylinder 3 is normal, you can tell withinn a few miles

Injectors
Coils
HT leads

I would swap cylinder 3 plug into another cylinder last as it's easy to see any effect at the moment

I suspect either the injector making that cylinder weak or it's being steam cleaned

 

[atakan123123]

ı suspect either the injector making that cylinder weak or it's being steam cleaned

I did a test on the injector today.

Removed the fuel pump fuse before it built up any pressure. (It does not put any pressure on the injectors.)

started the car directly with LPG.tested whether the injector was leaking.


The car still has the same idle fluctuation.

Other tests continue.

 

[atakan123123]

bonus episode
02
The wetness belongs to me, I applied WD40


I checked the manifold nuts. They all look solid.
Black smoke is not visible.

I didn't look at the torque that should normally be there. not too tight. not too loose.

I tested the oxygen sensors.

I connected the power supply and checked the heaters. They draw around 2-2.5 amps. It goes down to 1 amp. The heaters are solid.


I disconnected the upper sensor cables and connected them to the meter.
They show value and look healthy.

Note: Even if I remove the catalyst sensors, the fault light does not come on. Even if I remove the sensors, there is no change in the operation of the car.

Spark system


When I remove the spark plug cable of the 3rd cylinder, the idle problem disappears. The vehicle starts to shake, but the idle speed does not change.

I will do this test on all cylinders in the evening and try various experiments by changing the positions of the cables and coils.

 

[MrMagoo]

Daft question, are your spark plug leads in the correct order?

 

[koalar]

Spark system


When I remove the spark plug cable of the 3rd cylinder, the idle problem disappears. The vehicle starts to shake, but the idle speed does not change.

I will do this test on all cylinders in the evening and try various experiments by changing the positions of the cables and coils.

Does its sound like it's running on two or three cylinders

 

[atakan123123]

Daft question, are your spark plug leads in the correct order?

Yes , unfortunately

Does its sound like it's running on two or three cylinders

and yes it reacts to changes. It creates a concussion.


I focused a lot on the catalyst. Could it be clogged? Has anyone removed or checked the catalyst before?
Has anyone had any problems with the catalyst?

 

[MrMagoo]

What obd codes are you getting?

 

[koalar]

If you take the plugs off one at a time do they all have the same result

For example

cylinder 1 and 2 have little effect

3 and 4 have a large effect

 

[atakan123123]

What obd codes are you getting?

In case of malfunction, no code is transmitted to the ecu.
There is no error code.

cylinder 1 and 2 have little effect

3 and 4 have a large effect

I would say they are the same.
The vibration increases slightly on cylinders 3 and 4. Yes, there might be some difference. I think I evaluated it from a different angle.

tried both the injector and ignition cutting method.

When I looked at the spark plugs carefully, I saw that there were actually two white spark plugs.
Both spark plugs are white on one side and yellow on the other. I've seen many sources saying this is healthy.
Of course I still have my attention.



I have read articles about the ignition system stating that electricity should give a blue light. From what I understand the spark is fine.
If my spark plug pipes do not leak electricity to the body, the electricity must reach them well.

I measured the resistance of the injectors, 14ohm each. They're all exactly the same.

Electric Load

By the way, these days the idling problem has decreased and it does less than before.
This could be a coincidence. I don't think I fixed anything.

Low and high beam headlights. If opened at the same time. 8 amps + 8 amps = 16 amps)

Idling improves as in the video.

Same way;
It fixes itself when the fan is turned on. (high electricity consumption)

If I don't intervene. When the fan turns off, idle may be disturbed again.

When the air conditioner is turned on, the idle speed never deteriorates and recovers on its own.

If I turn on the air conditioner when the idle is bad, the problem disappears.

At idle, the air conditioner interferes a little with the engine. However, as far as I know, it does not affect electrical charges.

 

[MrMagoo]

I'm very surprised that you don't get error codes when disconnecting any sensors.
IMHO, plugs 1 & 2 look rich, and 3 & 4 look lean.
Clutching at straws, have you tried swapping injectors 1&2 with 3&4?

 

[koalar]

Daft question, are your spark plug leads in the correct order?

Must be they can take any lead off

It's a waste spark system,

1 and 4 doesn't matter which way round
2 and 3 doesn't matter which way round

You can only get no firing, two firing or 4 firing

 

[koalar]

What are the long term fuel trims showing at idle

You can't use multiecuscan it's missing

Yellow on the plugs is rare on unleaded petrol, have you used some injector cleaner or fuel additive?

 

[atakan123123]

You can only get no firing, two firing or 4 firing

I haven't moved yet. Once I put my mind to it, I usually buy new parts for this type of testing. But for now the injectors look healthy. I think there is no leakage. Resistance values are the same in all of them.

What are the long term fuel trims showing at idle

You can't use multiecuscan it's missing

Yellow on the plugs is rare on unleaded petrol, have you used some injector cleaner or fuel additive?

Are we talking about the instantaneous fuel consumption visible on the car's screen?

Or is it from a value on "mes"?

Minimum engine load value drops to around 7000.

I'm not sure I fully understand