Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[Steve Silver]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Hi All.. I have been watching the various threads on this subject since taking delivery of our 500S in January. This is my first post, but I thought it was time to add our experience. We have been fortunate enough to be able to purchase many new Fiat's over the years, but this is the first one that we are disappointed with. We love the car and the spec, but feel let down by the acceleration issues.


The car we test drove was a 500S which turned out to be euro 5. When I drove ours off the forecourt, I immediately thought something was wrong but gave it a while in case it was just tight. The car does seem a bit better after a few long runs, and after switching off start/stop (coincidence??). But, it is still not right in my opinion and feels like it going to cut out every so often when pulling away. It's been back twice, and we have been told that we need to adjust our driving habits for euro 6. Had we been told this on the test drive or when we ordered, I don't think we would have purchased either.


Anyway, trying not to let this spoil an otherwise enjoyable driving experience, but hope something can be done to make it even better

 

[306maxi]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

There really are some idiotic dealers, adjust your driving style to suit an emissions standard..... Whatever next?

 

[Oga]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Your concern is understandable. IMO there have been enough independent posts on this issue in both the 500 and Panda sections to justify a prospective purchaser seeking further reassurance before committing to a purchase.

We simply don't have any hard evidence one way or the other to say what (if anything) is going on here. I'd suggest anyone about to take delivery of a new 1.2 takes the car for an acceptance test drive to satisfy themselves they're happy with it before agreeing to the handover.

Contributions from anyone with an inside track on this would be particularly welcome.

The dealer (who have always been very helpful) have offered me a test drive in a EuroVI 500 1.2 which I'll do at the weekend. They've driven it since my queries yesterday and say it's fine.

I'm trying to buy a Panda, but should hopefully be representative of the engine / fuelling (the Panda courtesy car is EuroV).

 

[306maxi]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Personally I wouldn't buy till the issue is resolved.

 

[muttleysdad]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

I think I may have come into this a little late on but I agree with Maxi, I have a 6+ year old 500 1.2, 52k miles on the clock and its a completely different car to drive now than it was at 4k miles, early on it was very tight and slow to respond. In comparison now its like driving a racing car.

On another note I've just bought one of the new Panda 1.2's to use as a hack so I can stop piling the miles on the 500 and I know the flat spot feel that people are talking about. the car just has 2k on the clock

Now this may sound barking mad (And don't take the Mick Maxi this is a serious test).
Can some of you take your DRL bulbs out and take the car for a spin and report back? (I say take the bulbs out because you can't turn the damn things off any more).

Cheers C.

 

[deef1]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

muttleysdad I think you can turn them on/off (it's my wifes car) I think you press the menu button and scroll through to daylight running lights and switch to "off"

I'll give it a go though...have you tried this yourself then?

 

[Ulpian]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

How can running lights make a difference?

 

[deef1]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Ulpian I reckon muttleysdad might be pointing at a voltage thing...In my old 53 plate Focus, if i turn my side lights on the revs drop a little...not much and doesn't effect anything but if i then add in the rear demister then it's rev's drop even more...etc etc

 

[muttleysdad]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

No Idea

But it made a noticeable difference to the panda when I tried (they're permanently on so had to remove the bulbs and test drive).
Even er' indoors noticed a difference.
The 500 was awful to drive when I first got it with the DRL's on too, used to kangaroo in slow moving traffic. (I remember posting about it but as usual was poo pooed by the know it alls on the site). the 500 has since become much nicer to drive with them on now the engine is fully loosened so I do use them in the winter and bad weather.

I've replaced the bulbs on the panda with LED's which seems to have made the problem easier to live with.

I'm curious now to see if other people perceive a difference. (I did say it was barking mad)

 

[auditt]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Just had a phone call from FIAT customer services who told me they are aware of the issues with the Euro 6 1.2.But he said that is the way they are and there is no fix at the moment and may never be.

 

[auditt]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

I turned off the DRLs because on our old 500 the S/start used to play up when they were on.The throttle issue is not as bad with them off.But I am getting used to driving it now.

 

[306maxi]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Just had a phone call from FIAT customer services who told me they are aware of the issues with the Euro 6 1.2.But he said that is the way they are and there is no fix at the moment and may never be.

So basically some person who works in Slough and pretends to be in Italy and whose only diagnostic tools are a keyboard and a phone thinks it's to do with Euro 6, that's me convinced!


If it were to do with Euro 6 and some new part that has been fitted then it would affect ALL new 1.2's.


Fiat sell thousands upon thousands of 500's every month and I'd say at least half of them will be 1.2's, If the problem were this widespread we wouldn't have a tiny thread.


http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/85843/best-selling-cars-2014


Look how many 500's have been registered so far this year, if this problem was really to do with Euro 6 then this would be a faaaaar bigger problem.


The fact that they have no fix at the moment suggests that they don't even know what the issue is.......

 

[jrkitching]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

So basically some person who works in Slough and pretends to be in Italy and whose only diagnostic tools are a keyboard and a phone thinks it's to do with Euro 6, that's me convinced!

Personally I'd be more likely to believe what Fiat CS are saying than somone living in Wales who hasn't even driven the latest 1.2 and whose only diagnostic tools are a keyboard and a speculative imagination.

There've been enough independent posts now in both the 500 & Panda sections to convince me that there is a real issue here and IMO we need a better understanding of what is different about the cars with this issue.

Continued uninformed speculation from someone who doesn't own or hasn't even driven one of the 'problem' cars isn't helping anyone.

 

[Steve Silver]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Fiat sell thousands upon thousands of 500's every month and I'd say at least half of them will be 1.2's, If the problem were this widespread we wouldn't have a tiny thread.

I know where you are coming from.... And to be honest, I can go along with some other comments about getting used to it as my wife who predominantly drives the car says the same. I think what makes it worse for us is that we also own a 1.1 eco Panda (09) and that is so much nippier than this car. I suppose we were expecting the sporty feel, and that was present on the 500S that we test drove.

 

[306maxi]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Personally I'd be more likely to believe what Fiat CS are saying than somone living in Wales who hasn't even driven the latest 1.2 and whose only diagnostic tools are a keyboard and a speculative imagination.

There've been enough independent posts now in both the 500 & Panda sections to convince me that there is a real issue here and IMO we need a better understanding of what is different about the cars with this issue.

Continued uninformed speculation from someone who doesn't own or hasn't even driven one of the 'problem' cars isn't helping anyone.

But how can they know what the problem is, if they don't know what the problem is or how to fix it?


There is a real issue, that much is clear, but if it was a Euro 6 induced issue as is being claimed, then why do we not have as many people on here as we did when Start&Stop came out? After all this is a serious and possibly life threatening issue whereas S&S was just a light on the instrument cluster.


I'm sorry, but there's no logic to this......

 

[auditt]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Maybe some drivers are not aware of the issue or the forum and just accept the car as it is.He told me FIAT tech department are aware of issues with this engine.

 

[306maxi]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Maybe some drivers are not aware of the issue or the forum and just accept the car as it is.He told me FIAT tech department are aware of issues with this engine.

If a car doesn't pull away cleanly at a junction then you'll soon be aware of the issue.


Sadly our resident moderator feels the need to censor my opinion or at least strongly imply that I shouldn't give it.

 

[zanes]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

FWIW, I reckon Maxi might be on the money with it being something "batch" related, although it sounds very map related (could be both of course). If it's as bad as people on here say I really can't believe the development team would sign off on it (especially on a city car) and I think buyers would (rightfully) be over the forum/FIAT like a rash- if it's necessary for Euro VI compliance that suggests it's time for the last hurrah from the ancient 1.2 design. It's had a good run in anyone's book.

Am I right in thinking these issues only really appeared on the forum about a month ago with David Bliss?

I really sympathise with people who are excited about getting their new cars (and pay <very> good money for it) and then get hit with this- again I'd echo Maxi and urge those picking up new cars in the next few weeks to go for a brief test drive (with the salesman) and refuse delivery if it's bad.

VOSA might get involved if it's widespread enough, but I wouldn't be sure.

 

[Alfie14]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Zanes I have already reported this issue to VOSA who are interested In the issue, see https://www.fiatforum.com/500/351381-500-euro-6-problems.html

Our car is still being investigated with a possible ECU swap from another new 1.2 tomorrow. This other 1.2 drives quite differently to ours and does not exhibit the same issues. Although at first we thought it was a map problem, we are now wondering too if it is some batch issue with the ECU or some other manufacturing defect on the car. Will update when we have more info

 

[306maxi]

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

This is real problem solving, the ecu will give a better idea of what the problem is for sure.