A (kind of) new Jeep? (Based on an FCA platform)

[SB1500]

I’ve just seen an ad for the ‘Jeep Avenger’. Available in the UK since last June. What caught my eye was actually the interior which looks quite identical to the current new Electric 500. Identical drive mod buttons and touch screen…

Given the timelines this must have been drawn up and put out to market well into the Stellantis merge.

Could there be more modern Fiats yet to come using Fiat (FCA Fiat) era / designed platform / tech?

 

[AndyRKett]

Could there be more modern Fiats yet to come using Fiat (FCA Fiat) era / designed platform / tech?

this is actually the same platform and same interior as the 600e not the 500. This uses the same platform as many of the PSA cars and is not a "FCA Fiat" era car, design, platform or tech.

So to answer your question.... No.

 

[icheatatscrabble]

it looks like almost the same as a Vauxhall Mokka. Nothing distinctive about the look, other than the Jeep grille.

 

[SB1500]

it looks like almost the same as a Vauxhall Mokka. Nothing distinctive about the look, other than the Jeep grille.

I realised that (after 30 seconds of further research). I think my imagination got the better of me the second I seen such a similar set of controls on the advertisement - I assumed (and wanted to believe) that it was a sign that possibly something was going to survive that was somewhat properly Fiat but nope, big disappointment to find it’s a Stellantis Peugeot Jeep badged creation :-(

 

[icheatatscrabble]

I realised that (after 30 seconds of further research). I think my imagination got the better of me the second I seen such a similar set of controls on the advertisement - I assumed (and wanted to believe) that it was a sign that possibly something was going to survive that was somewhat properly Fiat but nope, big disappointment to find it’s a Stellantis Peugeot Jeep badged creation :-(

Sad to say I don't think we will ever see a Fiat only produced car ever again.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I realised that (after 30 seconds of further research). I think my imagination got the better of me the second I seen such a similar set of controls on the advertisement - I assumed (and wanted to believe) that it was a sign that possibly something was going to survive that was somewhat properly Fiat but nope, big disappointment to find it’s a Stellantis Peugeot Jeep badged creation :-(

Hope springs eternal. Forget it Fiat has gone. Its quite hard to stomach but it will never come back. I did PSA in the 90's and I aint going back.

 

[SB1500]

Hope springs eternal. Forget it Fiat has gone. Its quite hard to stomach but it will never come back. I did PSA in the 90's and I aint going back.

Same experience with my DS3. While I liked the far, good spec, engine said to be bulletproof enough… had too many stupid little problems that I think were inexcusable for a modern car in the age of technology we live in. Especially for one of the older car companies who should know better. Seem like the GM of the European brands..

 

[The Panda Nut]

Same experience with my DS3. While I liked the far, good spec, engine said to be bulletproof enough… had too many stupid little problems that I think were inexcusable for a modern car in the age of technology we live in. Especially for one of the older car companies who should know better. Seem like the GM of the European brands..

I think they do the job just fine. I had a Visa 5 BX's anda CX back in the day. WHat killed it stone dead was the utterly appalling customer service. Car taken for months damaged and reyturned unfixed, PSA think they are above all others and they are just not. My dad had a string of Peugeots 304's and 205's and the way he was treated by this shower beggars belief. I wouold sooner walk than spend my money with them, The new products are competent enough but so lacking in head room in a lot of cases I cannot sit in them so another issue for me. Vauxhalls were not exciting but extaordinarily robust and competent. Even they have lost character now which is mad. This will all make moving over to a washing machine on wheels easier though. With the huge mumber of new makers of EV's I see nothing but heatache and despair for anyone choosing a Perodua branded model etc. PArts are going to be unobtainium and if the rate of change of electronic products in gernerla keeps up its all going to end in a humongous pile, of extremely expensive scrap metal, bankrptcy and angst. It took a very long time just to get phones on the same tyores of charging plug for example and cars look to be going downthe same route. We really need UK made products.

 

[StevenRB45]

We really need UK made products.

Like Vauxhall?

 

[s130]

Well bearing in mind it looks like Fiat as a Fiat is gone and the Stellantis / PSA / Fiat / Jeep seems to be becoming "jacks of all trades and masters of none" what brand is left that you would buy?

Apart from a passed down Triumph Spitfire and a second hand Ford Cortina, which I had for about a year, I've only ever had / driven Fiats. My last Fiat BEFORE my 500X was a Croma 2005 in which apart from the diesel engine had all GM/Vectra running gear together with a long warranty claim list and more items out of warranty needing sorting. Not up to my then good previous Fiat experience.

Possible not so funny is that according to Warranty Wise reliabity data (https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/most-and-least-reliable-car-brands-revealed) the the Stellantis and PSA bias is not looking good for the furture:

Fiat - 6th @ 71% and £510
Peugeot - 13th @ 64% and £570
Citroen - 17th @ 62% and £580

Looks like Fiat / FCA are gtting in bed with the wrong partners.

I was also shocked to see how bad the other European makes are comapred to the so called "Fix It Again Tomorrow" or in my books "FIRST IN AUTO TREE"

 

[StevenRB45]

Well bearing in mind it looks like Fiat as a Fiat is gone and the Stellantis / PSA / Fiat / Jeep seems to be becoming "jacks of all trades and masters of none" what brand is left that you would buy?

Apart from a passed down Triumph Spitfire and a second hand Ford Cortina, which I had for about a year, I've only ever had / driven Fiats. My last Fiat BEFORE my 500X was a Croma 2005 in which apart from the diesel engine had all GM/Vectra running gear together with a long warranty claim list and more items out of warranty needing sorting. Not up to my then good previous Fiat experience.

Possible not so funny is that according to Warranty Wise reliabity data (https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/most-and-least-reliable-car-brands-revealed) the the Stellantis and PSA bias is not looking good for the furture:

Fiat - 6th @ 71% and £510
Peugeot - 13th @ 64% and £570
Citroen - 17th @ 62% and £580

Looks like Fiat / FCA are gtting in bed with the wrong partners.

I was also shocked to see how bad the other European makes are comapred to the so called "Fix It Again Tomorrow" or in my books "FIRST IN AUTO TREE"

I'd imagine Fiat repair costs have something to do with not having released a clean sheet design in nearly 20 years until the 500e..

Also given the knife and fork engineering they tend to employ 500 quid to fix it would seem rather steep. Alfa on the other hand who builds complex cars out of Fiat bits is propping up the bottom with the Germans and British cars.

If you look at the list as a whole, Citroën is on the mid point and everything else is better than average which given they all sell modern cars not facelifted year 2000 cars is not bad at all.

 

[SB1500]

WHat killed it stone dead was the utterly appalling customer service. Car taken for months damaged and reyturned unfixed, PSA think they are above all others and they are just not.

I forgot to mention that in my DS3 post. Customer service played a large part in putting me off the brand. Whilst ultimately PSA ("DS" customer care) looked after me very well by paying for that Mercedes and going to town on the repairs that eventually needed done to it), it was the dealer network which as a recurring paying customer (for things like fluid changes) that had a stinking attitude, I mean real stinking - receptionists looked like you were bothering them, service manager miserable and unenthusiastic at all times. Then when the warranty work (bodywork) needed done, it was their insistence on using that particular bodyshop which has a poor reputation... DS/PSA sided with them. Told me to give it a chance. They butchered the car, meaning it needed new doors / bumper etc... 100% unhelpful and completely avoidable situation in my opinion.

I'm lucky enough with Toyota that the company itself is more than willing to step in and straighten out the dealers and is open to taking the customers side.

I can't say much about Fiat (FCA time Fiat) other than they did their best in terms of accepting photos for diagnosing warranty issues (to save a 70 mile drive), never quibbled on the warranty claims (covering some things that were outright damaged by the previous owner even) and they had courtesy cars ready to go and weren't stingy on insisting I bring it back immediately when they fixed my car. They weren't bad at all to me.

My mum had a 1.0 208 recently. When she got it at 3 years old, it was already leaking oil. As we bought it from a Peugeot dealer I remember querying it with them. They took it in... adjusted something and told me that was part of regular maintenance for that engine and that the leaks weren't bad enough to warranty any sort of repair from them unless we wanted to pay for it... The fact they were producing engines that just leaked by default is sickening and if not for the majority of consumers (like my mum and a lot of people I know) who own these cars and would never think to look under them or query a damp spot on the ground, they probably wouldn't sell too many of them. I remember from the many DS3 groups online too that the petrols were plagued with similar issues, and turbo issues on the turbo variants. Taken as a given of owning them..

Bar the inevitable top cover leak on my old 05 Panda, and the one time the bottom seal did perish and leak, that car was bone dry underneath. Remarkable for such a simple, 'basic' and old car by that time. The more I recall these things, the less crazy I feel for wanting to go back to that ownership experience.

We really need UK made products.

I hope that happens. We have a few car / van factories. I read lately that Ford and Land Rover are doing something In Halewood (Liverpool) with the factory there to massively increase the UK's battery manufacturing capacity. I suppose that's something, to avoid the over reliance on the no-doubt incoming flood of generic Chinese EVs with crazy low sticker prices that will serve nothing other than filling up our domestic land fill sites like we've never seen before.

 

[StevenRB45]

My mum had a 1.0 208 recently. When she got it at 3 years old, it was already leaking oil. As we bought it from a Peugeot dealer I remember querying it with them. They took it in... adjusted something and told me that was part of regular maintenance for that engine and that the leaks weren't bad enough to warranty any sort of repair from them unless we wanted to pay for it... The fact they were producing engines that just leaked by default is sickening and if not for the majority of consumers (like my mum and a lot of people I know) who own these cars and would never think to look under them or query a damp spot on the ground, they probably wouldn't sell too many of them. I remember from the many DS3 groups online too that the petrols were plagued with similar issues, and turbo issues on the turbo variants. Taken as a given of owning them..

Got to watch those Toyota engines... they love a leak (same engine as Aygo 1.2 is a PSA engine).

Actually no they are usually very strong indeed so usually wouldn't leak unless it was perhaps an ex-hire car that had been on the limiter for it's entire life.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Well bearing in mind it looks like Fiat as a Fiat is gone and the Stellantis / PSA / Fiat / Jeep seems to be becoming "jacks of all trades and masters of none" what brand is left that you would buy?

Apart from a passed down Triumph Spitfire and a second hand Ford Cortina, which I had for about a year, I've only ever had / driven Fiats. My last Fiat BEFORE my 500X was a Croma 2005 in which apart from the diesel engine had all GM/Vectra running gear together with a long warranty claim list and more items out of warranty needing sorting. Not up to my then good previous Fiat experience.

Possible not so funny is that according to Warranty Wise reliabity data (https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/most-and-least-reliable-car-brands-revealed) the the Stellantis and PSA bias is not looking good for the furture:

Fiat - 6th @ 71% and £510
Peugeot - 13th @ 64% and £570
Citroen - 17th @ 62% and £580

Looks like Fiat / FCA are gtting in bed with the wrong partners.

I was also shocked to see how bad the other European makes are comapred to the so called "Fix It Again Tomorrow" or in my books "FIRST IN AUTO TREE"

This just mirrors my own experience. My Citroens were OK but required more repairs and warranty works and were off the road in total for not weeks but months in the first months of ownership. Taking the last 6 cars which have been Fiats. We have covered 250,000 miles approx.
Breakdowns requiring recovery NIL.
Warranty claims 3 window regulator x2 Panda 100, and emissions gear on the 2014 1.2 car.
Limp home experiences 4.
Cambelts 3. - related to the bravo EGR and 1 to the emissions gear on the 1,2.
Exhausts 4 batteries 3 brakes replacement 6. Anything else has been down to muck an dust and been of little significance. The only real irritant has been Daffo keep ruining tyres and the rattling front end which seems to be down to the way the garage installed the new air con condenser on Daffo when we bought it. The overall feeling is of bullet proof reliability excepting poor old DAffo whio is now12 years old so a period of expenditure is expected.

Todays expedition to Fiat... The NEW Fiat dealer in Norwich "knows nothing about the Panda" and wants £500 for this years service and MOT. So they can MOT Ruby (2014) and that will be their lot.
Noops warranty has or will soon have gone so it will be done in house. Cost £137. The beauty of this of course is you know it will be done properly. The dealer quoted £63 just for the plugs.

Only Daffo is doing much miles . 16.6p per mile servicing for an 874cc two cylinder engine is as we say here kinridiculous. Might as well get a taxi and hire when needed at that rate. Having to travers no less than 6 floods getting to Norwich, at least a foot deep, and scrabble through a sea of liquid mud does feel like justification for having a 4x4 now.

 

[The Panda Nut]

This just mirrors my own experience. My Citroens were OK but required more repairs and warranty works and were off the road in total for not weeks but months in the first months of ownership. Taking the last 6 cars which have been Fiats. We have covered 250,000 miles approx.
Breakdowns requiring recovery NIL.
Warranty claims 3 window regulator x2 Panda 100, and emissions gear on the 2014 1.2 car.
Limp home experiences 4.
Cambelts 3. - related to the bravo EGR and 1 to the emissions gear on the 1,2.
Exhausts 4 batteries 3 brakes replacement 6. Anything else has been down to muck an dust and been of little significance. The only real irritant has been Daffo keep ruining tyres and the rattling front end which seems to be down to the way the garage installed the new air con condenser on Daffo when we bought it. The overall feeling is of bullet proof reliability excepting poor old DAffo whio is now12 years old so a period of expenditure is expected.

Todays expedition to Fiat... The NEW Fiat dealer in Norwich "knows nothing about the Panda" and wants £500 for this years service and MOT. So they can MOT Ruby (2014) and that will be their lot.
Noops warranty has or will soon have gone so it will be done in house. Cost £137. The beauty of this of course is you know it will be done properly. The dealer quoted £63 just for the plugs.

Only Daffo is doing much miles . 16.6p per mile servicing for an 874cc two cylinder engine is as we say here kinridiculous. Might as well get a taxi and hire when needed at that rate. Having to travers no less than 6 floods getting to Norwich, at least a foot deep, and scrabble through a sea of liquid mud does feel like justification for having a 4x4 now.

FF discount actually brought it down to £124

 

[StevenRB45]

As per the current Stellantis MO...

Make a big noise about the electric one..

Quietly release the petrol one...

Jeep Avenger now £11,000 cheaper thanks to new petrol versions | Auto Express

Originally launched in electric-only form, Jeep’s smallest SUV is now available with pure-petrol and mild-hybrid power

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Given Jeep is a "premium" brand in the tree it does beg the question where the Panda and C3 on the budget platform will be pitched price wise.

The budget platform has less expensive electric gear but even so an 8 grand drop from the E-C3 price would have it in the 13s as the current car is for a base model.

 

[AndyRKett]

As per the current Stellantis MO...

Make a big noise about the electric one..

Quietly release the petrol one...

Jeep Avenger now £11,000 cheaper thanks to new petrol versions | Auto Express

Originally launched in electric-only form, Jeep’s smallest SUV is now available with pure-petrol and mild-hybrid power

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Given Jeep is a "premium" brand in the tree it does beg the question where the Panda and C3 on the budget platform will be pitched price wise.

The budget platform has less expensive electric gear but even so an 8 grand drop from the E-C3 price would have it in the 13s as the current car is for a base model.

Yep goes a long with something I was discussing the other day with the "All Electric" new Mini Countryman, which if you go on their website right now, you can order with a petrol engine.

I don't think manufacturers are winding back on electrification, but there is still a big market right now, for people who now need to replace their cars but don't have the budget for an electric car.

I suspect my next car may end up being the last of the ICE cars before electric cars become the norm, that being said I have no desire or need to replace my car right now, I could end up keeping it for a few more years to come, in which case, I might end up with an electric replacement by default.

I really fancy a Topolino once they have been around a while and are selling for a couple of grand.

 

[StevenRB45]

I was interested to note that the All singing all dancing 500 mile range 1.5-2 seconds to 60 electric platform that they've just launched to go under things like the Charger in the U.S. and Maserati over here is still designed to take combustion engines in both longitudinal and transverse and fwd, Awd and rwd layouts. That was the last paragraph of the press release obviously.

In theory they could still be making combustion cars for as long as law makers keep back sliding...in the current market it would appear not committing either way is a valid strategy.

I really fancy a Topolino once they have been around a while and are selling for a couple of grand.

Same, as although obviously it's useless for a lot of stuff for the daft round the doors stuff you end up doing a lot of the time it would seem to be a very cheap and low maintenance way to do it.

 

[AndyRKett]

I think if you consider some of FCA’s biggest markets we’re not heading for electrification such as India, South America, and the dependence on “muscle” cars in North America, all countries as well as turkey and a lot of North African and Middle Eastern countries, it would make sense for stellantis to not go all in on a fully electric platform like vw have, that being said VWs market is more focused on places like Europe, China, and the market in the USA and North America that is inclined towards electric cars, they still have their older platforms to fall back on

 

[StevenRB45]

The issue with 2 platforms is 2 sets of tooling and if for example your electric car roll out bombs...then you need to idle factories that make cars there's no demand for.

One advantage of the Omni platform approach is you can build what is selling now without re-tooling anything.