..and came very very close to losing the whole car too

I usually walk about 16 miles every Sunday and was on my way to a Rambler's meet only to find the main road was closed due to flooding. Due to this diversion I realized I'd need to get a move on as it's a long drive around.

Now bear in mind at this point that most roads in the area are flooded at many places so deciding to put your foot down was not the best idea

I was really blasting down a straight road but then noticed a shimmer in the distance which I finally realized was water covering most of the road but only when it was far too late. I instantly aquaplaned and started veering towards the right-hand hedge with offside wheels stuck on verge. I realized I'd somersault if I dug into the hedge and tried like mad to get it back onto the road. Managed to get it back, after what seemed like an eternity, but lost control as the Stilo spun on the flooded tarmac (wasn't too bothered as long as I lost speed and kept it out of the ditch.)

I didn't! The car dropped into the left-hand ditch at an angle of 45°. It was still moving and I desperately tried to get it out but realized I didn't have a hope as it quickly started filling with water. That's when I realized it wasn't just a little bit of water but a full blown flood!

Once I'd got out, pretty much half the car was under water including the boot (even my backpack was half under water).

I retrieved the towing bolt and tow rope and fixed these to the rear of the car whilst I still could. Whilst doing this a 4X4 had stopped across the road and I walked over to have a chat. He said he was up for giving it a go and seeing as the water lever was rising (and the Stilo sinking ever lower) I quickly agreed.

I got back in, started the engine, and gave what drive I could (massive relief to find transmission not smashed) bearing in mind the passenger seat was now underwater. Mud was flying everywhere and at one point the car lurched even lower into the ditch (river!) and I thought I really would have to abandon it - but at the last moment got some purchase and we pulled/drove it out.

Gave the guy a big hug before I left.

I did consider trying to get to the Ramblers meet but I was too late for that so slowly drove home. Electronics was going crazy (I think battery and relay box was under water at one point) and engine didn't sound too good but it got me home.

I've now emptied most of the water of out the car and cleaned what seemed like a half a ton of mud off it too.

Tomorrow I'll get it checked over by the local Fiat specialist (who will laugh their heads off ). No obvious damage to car itself amazingly although yet to fully check underside - apart from my undertray which is likely in the bottom of the ditch!

Think it might be good idea to remove the vapour trap in case it's full of water (maybe also the filter and turbo) as a hell of lot of the engine was under water at one point.

Lesson learnt for me is better to get there late than not at all!

Surprised the engine started after that "dunking". Normally once the air filter gets water in it, the engine "hydraulics" and it's bye-bye con rods - new engine needed.

A lucky escape for you and the car by the sounds of it.

At least no one was hurt, well may be your pocket will suffer a little after the trip to the "Stealers" ..

Davren said:

Surprised the engine started after that "dunking". Normally once the air filter gets water in it, the engine "hydraulics" and it's bye-bye con rods - new engine needed.

Click to expand...

The air intake has to go under water first of course - although I agree it must have been a damn close thing.

Thinking back, deciding to start the engine when it was half submerged was maybe not the best idea - but sometimes you just have to act on impulse - and hope you get away with it.

What do you think of my idea of unclipping the vapour trap - or do you think any damage would now have been done anyway. The engine does sound a lot louder but I'm not sure if that's due to missing undertray

Shadeyman said:

At least no one was hurt, well may be your pocket will suffer a little after the trip to the "Stealers" ..

Click to expand...

The garage I use is nothing like a main dealer but if it does cost me anything then I've only got myself to blame

Reading the title, that was a surprising and unfortunate turn of events - the missing under tray is surely the least of the problems hope the engine isn't damaged - but at least you're OK, that's the main thing (plenty more Stilos out there).

I'm surprised the Stilo was spinning on a wet road. ESP/VDC is supposed to make that impossible. Did it feel like the ESP was intervening (braking individual wheels?) I realise you had your hands full and might have been too busy to notice. All Stilos in NZ came with ESP, but perhaps this wasn't the case elsewhere? (we only got the 1.8 and Abarth, no diesels).

In the extreme opposite circumstances (a dry racetrack on a hot day) I deliberately tried to provoke a spin in my first Stilo and couldn't do it - the car would always shudder to a halt in a straight line, even when I stood on the brakes while turning in to a fast corner. I figured out pretty quick that ESP didn't improve the handling at all (no advantage on lap times) but it did seem like a worthwhile safety net.

-Alex

If the passenger seat was under water, then the top of the airbox must have been close, plus as you went into the water, a bow wave would have been created that could have gone over the airbox.

The outlet pipes from the airbox are sealed with clips but the inlet pipe from the bonnet slam panel just pushes into the top of the airbox.

I would certainly take the air filter out to check for water before starting it again.

I'd remove and clean the whole induction system, change the oil and check the fuel tank for damage and ingress of water before running the engine again. Replace fuel, oil and air filters too.

I hope it all turns out good for you, minimal or no damage except the lost under tray, which you could retrieve once the water has drained away ..

wow, what a story and you are one skilled driver my friend for controlling things as well as you did-im glad you are ok. Being a 4x4 driver myself, its good to know they stopped to help you out, as I would have (always keep a tow rope to hand).

as said, remove the air filter and check things over before restarting the car. Get some wd40 on those electrics which will help disperse any damaging droplets and with luck, the engine will be ok. Maybe its louder due to more damage underneath, such as exhaust or as you say, lack of undertray.

Id get someone to give you a lift back to the site, and retrieve your undertray, itll be laying down the ditch somewhere.

well, best of luck pal, glad you are ok.

Wow. I didn't know if to like or dislike your origional post.

Will be interesting to see if there is any long term damage, but if not and it's just the under tray you've lost then you've done extremely well IMO!

Glad that ultimately you're ok though and are here to tell the tale.

Thanks for the useful tips guys

I think on reflection it makes a lot of sense to check the induction before I even think of starting it again.

I'd look really stupid if some water is trapped within the air-box/vapour-trap/turbo and then suddenly gets sucked in (have deliberately kept revs really low so far)

alexGS said:

All Stilos in NZ came with ESP, but perhaps this wasn't the case elsewhere? (we only got the 1.8 and Abarth, no diesels).

Click to expand...

My 2002 1.6 Dynamic does not have ESP, only ASR. Too bad, as I too landed my Stilo in a ditch the other day, but the ditch was filled with snow rather than water...

Update

Garage couldn't look at the car today so took a good part of the day off to check it myself.

I just couldn't believe the amount of mud & dirt rammed into the underside which was close to a wheelbarrow full

Both side trays are destroyed. Most alarmingly the side protection tray that protects the timing belt is completely destroyed and I'm a bit puzzled why this isn't also caked with mud (which I'm sure would have killed the engine). Perhaps it only completely failed its protection duties at the last moment :chin: Also got a broken front spring although have to say the spring catcher is doing a fine job holding it in place

Got a shock when I checked the air-filter as I could see straight away it wasn't sealed properly - and sure enough the bottom half of the filter was soaking However, on checking the MAF side I could find no trace of any oil/water residue which leads me to hope by some miracle the filter still managed to hold the water back. You can even see the water line at 45° showing how the car was positioned in the ditch. What I simply can't figure is why it didn't fill completely with water since, as Davren points out, the air-box must at the very least have been a foot under water. All I can think is that the water pressure itself actually sealed the air-box shut allowing it to stay submerged for 10-15 minutes.

All said and done, the engine is definitely in a bad way. It's very noisy and lacks power although it ticks over smoothly enough (like a farm tractor basically ). I'm wondering about that exposed timing belt. Is it just possible some mud & water might have caused it to jump a few notches :chin:

...or should I start looking for another motor ?

Re: Update

Possibly water in the turbo boost valve or its connector. Even if yours is on the battery tray, it could be water logged. There's a very small air filter attached to the side of the valve.

fiatritmo said:

My 2002 1.6 Dynamic does not have ESP, only ASR. Too bad, as I too landed my Stilo in a ditch the other day, but the ditch was filled with snow rather than water...

Click to expand...

Mine too. You have to have the Dynamic "deluxe" package in Norway to get the ESP, even they are both Dynamic. ESP always came with the skyroof, and some fancy rain sensor utility, and electric rear windows (on 5-door). It also came with 16" alloys if I remember correctly. Perhaps some other nice things aswell.

Thanks Morten and fiatritmo for confirming that... now just to find out whether Argo's Stilo had ESP and whether it was useful... I'd be interested to know.

Though I realise that ascertaining the engine damage is probably more the priority right now. I wonder if a compression tester can be used with a diesel? I imagine the glow plugs would have to be removed, since there aren't any spark plug holes.

-Alex

alexGS said:

Thanks Morten and fiatritmo for confirming that... now just to find out whether Argo's Stilo had ESP and whether it was useful... I'd be interested to know.

Click to expand...

Hi Alex, like fiatritmo my Dynamic only has ASR which I'm pretty sure is next to no use in such a situation.

I'd also be mighty interested to know what would have happened had my Stilo had ESP although don't expect me to volunteer as I'm in no hurry to do it again :bang:

At the point of hitting the water, I tried to position the car to equalise turning moments on the car (it was a straight road so I just hoped to keep it that way) and immediately ceased all braking. I must have got it a little wrong though as I was was horrified to find the car started very gradually to turn clockwise on what felt to me as a very slippery sheet of ice. Once the off-side wheels started bouncing over the verge (which was out of the water) I started to get some control back and it was a huge relief, after some very scary moments, to find I wasn't going to impact on the right-hand bank after all.

Not totally sure why the car span. I assumed it was due to the nearside wheels finally getting good grip on the tarmac but it's possible that side of the car hit deeper water (it was about 4"-5" deep on the road itself and a lot deeper to the side of it!). As I've said, at the time, I was massively relieved to have completely missed the bank and thought something like "dealt with that - now for the next problem!"

For the "next problem", I didn't quite have in mind landing in half a river of water

Can I also say that I didn't mean to belittle your achievement of regaining control in that situation - must have been dire indeed. When a front-wheel-drive car oversteers after a correction (as in, a secondary slide) it happens very quickly (I've had that, but only to end with me stopped, confused, after a disorienting spin) - you must have been operating at great mental speed to have realised what was going on and even think about "the next problem"!

I reckon most drivers would have simply ended up in that bank with a written-off car and whiplash injuries, so we should think what has been saved/avoided even though the engine might have suffered. I believe you've already won the battle, regardless of whether the engine gets saved.

As you said, ASR as traction control doesn't do anything unless power is on. It's interesting that ESP wasn't fitted to all versions (being only a bit of software and a couple of sensors) but it might well have been useless anyway if the tyres were completely floating/aquaplaning - even clever electronic braking might not have stabilised the car. I like to think ESP might help prevent one of those disorienting spins in other similar conditions (when it is difficult to know which direction to steer).

"Immediately ceased all braking" must be a difficult move to learn as well, but very important to maximise the tyre grip available for steering. I tend not to get onto the brake at all when it goes really pear-shaped, so it's good that ESP will intervene and brake individual wheels even without the driver's foot being on the brake pedal. From that track day I can also remember that ESP does nothing to cure understeer on the Stilo, so its sole job really is to prevent an over-corrective slide or spin. The understeer is probably left in there as a deliberate signal to the driver. Promising technology, I think you'll agree, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to just those four patches of rubber...

Hope you don't have any more such surprises this winter.

-Alex

alexGS said:

"Immediately ceased all braking" must be a difficult move to learn as well, but very important to maximise the tyre grip available for steering.

Click to expand...

I think this is normal for those who learnt driving prior to the ABS system - or didn't have access to cars with ABS (like me). I had serious problems learning to brake when my father got his first Mondeo with ABS. Everytime the pedal gave some "push-back" I let go of the pedal. What is nice with the Stilo's ASR is that it kicks in and blinks if one wheel drags (and seems to work as a front axle ESP), like when only one side starts waterplanning or a negative spin on one wheel. This means to me: Clutch in, stay clear of throttle and brake, and steer through.

Morty Mort said:

This means to me: Clutch in, stay clear of throttle and brake, and steer through.

Click to expand...

I know what you mean about ABS Morten but personally that's something I'd never do.

Having power (or engine braking) to the front wheels I'd class as critical.

It's entirely possible, I could have driven through after the first recovery and thereby avoided both the spin and the dunking - but it would have taken greater skill and nerve than I have - even if my foot was likely very close to the accelerator

I was confronted by a similar decision in the Alps a few years back.

I'd driven to the top, very steep part, of a French resort using chains. We didn't need to use the car for several days and I came to the incredibly stupid notion that "you only need chains to get up a hill and not down one" so I took them off!

After a few days we decided to drive down into the main resort. I'd driven little more than 20 metres before the insanity of what I'd done suddenly dawned on me. The Stilo, with its summer tyres, was now just a sledge and was starting to slide down the hill with little regard to engine traction or brakes However, I knew the Stilo had MSR and decided to put all confidence in this one technology. I barely touched the brakes once, managed to negotiate two bends whilst at the same time praying nothing was driving up the hill.

The engine absolutely screamed as it tried to match the rotation of the front wheels to the rear whilst at the same time applying what engine braking it could. It was an act of will NOT to hit the brakes since I felt this might slew the car sideways so that we ended up jammed into one of the banks.

I got to the bottom without mishap as it so happens and it still remains one of my scariest experiences in the Stilo.

The interesting question though is did I do the right thing ?

Would it have been better to rely on ABS rather than MSR (which would have tried to brake on 4 wheels rather than just 2) :chin:

Very interresting reply Argon. And just to have it said, I am happy you got out of the flood safely. You did the right thing.

The reason I wouldn't have the throttle in, is the fear of water entering the induction collapsing the rods, and total engine breakdown and following up with a gearbox cereal combination leaving no power to the axle except brakes.

But it might be a great idea to do exactly that - keeping power to pull (front wheel drive) the car straight. Or engine braking in that matter. But it would have to summon a miracle, staying on top of the water.

Just a thought. I am used to winter driving, living at 69° north. What sometimes happens is when I gear down too fast/hard, the front wheels give too much resistance to the snow/ice and slips immediately after releasing the clutch. This is told by the tell-tale-ASR which tries to adjust to front axle traction. This behaviour is not perfect, as it could throw the rear end out of it's axis. It would be great if the ASR just "told" me, but didn't kick in, so I could engage the clutch and get traction/friction back by either a higher gear or just brake with the ABS on all 4 wheels.