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Old 09-04-2008   #16
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Even though these are almost new vehicles with very low mileages and have a pampered life driven by very mild mannered folk there have been 4 gearbox failures and 7 clutch failures. All of the failures have occurred on the 6 speed variants.
A new development today has seen Fiat attempt to make the owner of one of these (2007 regsistered, 3000 miles) pay for a clutch replacement which failed whilst juddering its way backwards up a hill.
IF YOU HAVE A FIAT DUCTO X250 (VAN OR MOTORHOME) I SUGGEST YOU REGISTER AN OFFICIAL COMLAINT WITH FIAT IF IT JUDDERS - ITCOULD SAVE YOU ABOUT 1000 IF THE CLUTCH FAILS.
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Last edited by T14086; 27-04-2009 at 22:49. Reason: spamming monster clean up
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Old 09-04-2008   #17
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Thanks Andy. We dont really get many motorhome owners here but for the few that do pass by i'm sure they will read this post.

Can you confirm what the actual cause/damage was to the 4 gearbox failures and 7 clutch failures.
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Old 19-04-2008   #18
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

For those of a non technical bent like myself the gearbox failures suggest that the juddering is the cuprit as (so Fiat tell me) reverse gear is situated between 1st and 2nd and the gearbox problems have been that of the synchro cone on the upward change from 1st to 2nd being damaged by the juddering causing reverse gear to come into contact with the nearest bit of metal - the synchro ring on 2nd.
That's what they reckon, but the official line from Fiat is that they will not comment on any of these failures.

There are now nearly 100 motorcaravan owners who are very unhappy with this potentially serious defect, and I have recently borrowed two bog standard vans from two hire fleets (one an X250 5 speed SWB Citroen, the other a 6 speed MWB Fiat) and both juddered very badly in reverse on a steep hill.
From the data collected from motorhomes it seems that the 6 speed models (Fiat 120, 130 and 160) are very definitely worse than the those fitted with the 5 speed box.
Fiat have known about this issue since BEFORE October 2006, but have still not acknowledged publicly that there is a serious problem with the Ducato.
In the case of my own vehicle (plus many others in similar circumstances) the dealer has told Fiat that the vehicle is likely to suffer from premature component failure, and that is not operating within Fiat's 'normal juddering' parameters (an incredible term really) but Fiat now refuse to discuss the findings of the dealer.
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Last edited by T14086; 27-04-2009 at 22:50. Reason: spamming monster clean up
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Old 21-06-2008   #19
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

This is the third time i have put this post here but each time i return it has been removed why ???????????????
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Last edited by T14086; 27-04-2009 at 22:53. Reason: clean up
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Old 21-06-2008   #20
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Quote Originally Posted by colinfrier View Post
This is the third time i have put this post here but each time i return it has been removed why ???????????????
because your constantly spamming for these other sites, one link is enough!
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Last edited by T14086; 27-04-2009 at 22:52. Reason: clean up
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Old 26-06-2008   #21
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Well Colin,
It seems that the stories about replacement flywheels etc are only that.

Stories!!!

I contacted the dealer where I bought my van, only to be told that as of the 23rd of June there is still no solution to the problem, nor any replacement parts. This was the official response from Fiat to the service manager.

We will just have to live in hope.

Still chuffed with the van, when it isn`t rattling my teeth!!
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Old 26-06-2008   #22
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Quote Originally Posted by Joiner View Post
Well Colin,
It seems that the stories about replacement flywheels etc are only that.

Stories!!!

I contacted the dealer where I bought my van, only to be told that as of the 23rd of June there is still no solution to the problem, nor any replacement parts. This was the official response from Fiat to the service manager.

We will just have to live in hope.

Still chuffed with the van, when it isn`t rattling my teeth!!
Thanks for the update when (or should I say if?) there is any news i'm sure it will get posted here straight away

(I was told the same as others here, keep RPM above 1500 when reversing)
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Old 14-08-2008   #23
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

It is now rumoured that the X250 in Peugeot format is to have the ECU re mapped in the hope that it cures the JUDDER if not a lower ratio reverse gear is to be fitted if you shout loud enough and new production from Jan 2009 will have the lower reverse.Still waiting to hear from Fiat on the subject but hope they follow suit.
Colin Frier
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Old 20-08-2008   #24
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

A lot of X250 Ducato owners are getting very frustrated with Fiat over the Judder in reverse. Fiat's rubbishy answer about the revs is not the answer either. And as for the official answer that it is a characteristic of the vehicle does not fill me with confidence. I am really annoyed as I have owned many Fiat vehicles and they have given me good service. This Ducato is great except for this fault. I hope that Fiat will come clean on the cause/solution of this problem before my warranty runs out.
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Old 21-08-2008   #25
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Interesting thread. I drive a ducato based bus for a living (25' long, triaxle, 4500kg unladen with a 2.8 diesel engine).
We have at least five of these in the fleet that I know about (used for transporting elderly/disabled people) and 3 have already been transferred to my area because they cannot cope with hills (even in forward gear!) Mine is 06 model & has nearly 14000 on the clock and it has already had one clutch replaced with another due fairly soon judging by the smell (reversed up a slope yesterday & the clutch really smoked.)
Our fleet is maintained by Brian Currie & they seem to be scratching their heads with this problem.
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Old 29-08-2008   #26
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

The latest news via Andy Stothert is that Fiat might be waking up to this now. Talk of a lower gear ratio for reverse.
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Last edited by Dobbin; 29-08-2008 at 08:29.
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Old 12-10-2008   #27
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

I have had a letter from Fiat advising that they are looking into this problem but are not committed to a timescale.
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Old 29-11-2008   #28
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Our older Ducato 2.8 JTD suffers from judder in reverse on inclines.

I would agree about engine mounts being too soft BTW. We've broken a front engine mount on our van.

Iveco manufacture the 2.8 and 2.3 engines. I honestly believe that the IVECO Daily vans do not suffer from problems due to rear wheel drive thus, a longer drivetrain to absorb vibration etc.

From a design point of view, reversing a FWD van up a steep incline with (in our case) a 127bhp engine with massive torque is a big ask!!! With all the extra weight of a motorhome, i can see it being a clutch and gearbox killer!!

Being a delivery driver in a rural part of the country, the only advice I can give fellow owners is that if you have to reverse up an incline, don't slip the clutch too much. Start reversing and let off the clutch totally: It will crawl quite successfully in reverse with minimal accelerator input.

At the least our Ducato will get up slopes, our old MK2 Transit just slid it's rear wheels in opposite directions!!!!!!!

Don't get too despondent with your motorhome Ducatos: IMO, they are the nicest light commercial van to drive and on the whole in my experience, very reliable!
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Old 09-12-2008   #29
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Hot news yesterday is that FIAT have now anounced a fix for problem X250's which involves modified gearbox,stronger clutch,new engine mountings all those with problems will get one or more of these mods.
The multi jet 130 is to be the first with the mods starting end of Jan 2009 we await the official word from FIAT who are writing to all those effected.
Good News at last.
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Old 09-12-2008   #30
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Quote Originally Posted by colinfrier View Post
Hot news yesterday is that FIAT have now anounced a fix for problem X250's which involves modified gearbox,stronger clutch,new engine mountings all those with problems will get one or more of these mods.
The multi jet 130 is to be the first with the mods starting end of Jan 2009 we await the official word from FIAT who are writing to all those effected.
Good News at last.
Good news indeed. That'll cost Fiat (and now doubt Peugeot and Citroen) a fortune!! to do the mods.
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