Technical Whining / Whirring noise???

[mark76dee]

Need some help before I end up forking out for new clutch / dual mass flywheel...
We have a 115JTD (53 plate) Already had new clutch cylinders and done 86k.
Past few months there is a high-pitched whining/mechanical noise when "giving it some" - really noticeable in 1st and 2nd gear, less so in 3rd under gentle acceleration and hardly at all in 4th.
Weird bit is that it always coincides with turbo kicking in and black smoke from the exhaust. (turbo working fine as far as I can tell).

Now the clutch is definitley slipping.

Likely to be dual mass flywheel or thrust bearing???

Any ideas? Scared of getting ripped off by the garage.
Already estimated £800-£900 for clutch and flywheel.

Suspecting we have a friday-edition multipla, stangely we still like it though?!

Thanks in advance!

 

[BikeDoc]

Clutch slip will usually coincide with the Turbo 'kicking-in' as that's when you get a jump in torque.
Clutch slip is more common in the higher gears though, you don't usually see it in first or second unless it's so bad it barely grips at all (e.g. due to an oil leak into the housing).

It's likely that you have another fault as well as the clutch slip.
It could be the differential or one of the CV joints.

 

[flying clutchman]

Your desciption of the noise sounds like a gearbox bearing. This is a common problem on puntos but their gearbox is totally different to a Multipla. Occasionally clutches make strange noises (very slight slip you don't notice) but it's pretty rare. Make sure it's not something silly like a belt slipping and squealing before you panic. 86k mileage is about normal clutch life, and you would be advised to change DMF at same time. It's almost impossible to judge if they're still servicable and you don't want to do the job twice.

 

[mark76dee]

Thanks for the advice.
The clutch is only slipping in 3rd / 4th and is as I would expect.
It's the noise that's in the lower gears though.

I take your suggestion on the DMF too although it pains my wallet!
Do you think that the fact the last service mechanic left the fuel filter leaking badly will have had any impact on the belts or anything else?
They were soaked in deisel until I tightened the filter back up.

 

[Zundapp]

You can't ascertain whether there's a problem with the dual mass flywheel until the clutch is out. Only then it can be physically and visually checked.

While there have been many horror stories relating to dmf's - usually over early failure and the cost of replacement - most folk never have any problem whatsoever with them.

I've had two diesel Multi's, both did around 100,000 miles before the clutch needed doing, and neither had a problem with the dmf.

So don't worry until you need to!

 

[flying clutchman]

diesel on the belts! Yes it will definitely affect them adversely. A belt slipping under load may well be the cause of the noise. Changing the DMF with the clutch is a matter of choice, whether you wish to just change the clutch and hope it's ok will save you a lot of money, but not if you have to pay twice. If you do the job yourself it's probably ok because it's just your time, but if you're paying someone it's a gamble.

 

[kev78]

the symptoms you describe about the whining sounds like a text book intercooler hose split to me, especially as it is doubled with the black smoke.
Had this happen to me on a mondeo tdci and a pug 306 hdi.

Have a real good look around all the intercooler / turbo pipes. The intercooler pipe on the pug had slipped off the intercooler and just needed pushing back on and tightening whereas the mondeo had split on the inside of a bend in the hose from the intercooler so needed to be replaced which cost about £50 and i fitted it myself.

Hope this helps

 

[mark76dee]

Thanks for all the replies.
The car has been in the garage for a replacement clutch.
It needed a new dual mass flywheel - too much play in the old one apparantly. The cam belt kit was done too.
According to the garage, at some point a main seal has gone on the gearbox and my wife has been driving around with dry gears.
This has damaged 1st 2nd and 3rd bearings which is leading to the whining noise under acceleration.
The garage seemed really good -best rated on the good garage scheme.
He also showed me all the parts he replaced and showed how they were worn - although in all honesty I could have been looking at tank parts and not known the difference!

My bill came to £1020.00 and they've quoted £550 for gearbox repair.
The garage also said that if we leave it too long before doing the gearbox, the seal could go again and ruin the clutch as well as cause more gear damage.

My wife is going mad, reckons this was way too much to spend.
You know how it is - she talks to people at work who know someone who knows someone who would have done it for £50!!!

I got three quotes and they were all pretty similar give or take £100.

What do you think? Is it excessive?
I hate being in the garage's hands like this :-(

 

[ukmarc]

Hi Mark,
I have justed payed £411.80 for a 2001 jtd elx 110 of ebay maybe it would be worth doing the same and swapping out the gearbox and putting in a new clutch your self £120 odd from eurocarparts.
Marc

 

[ukmarc]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GOOD-MANUAL-G...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item19b742392c



http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/fiat-multipla...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item45ef2ab086


These might help you Mark,,,

Cheers Marc

 

[JTDman]

I bought my multi with this damage to the box but mine was making a hell of a noise, i removed the box had the bearings replaced £100 all in then fitted a new seal on the shaft and re fitted it and its been totally fine since.
When i say mine was noisey i mean really nasty metalic crunching noises but the box was fine after the bearings were done.

 

[mark76dee]

The garage also said that if we leave it too long before doing the gearbox, the seal could go again and ruin the clutch as well as cause more gear damage.

Guess what?! Clean gearbox oil on the driveway today! And the whining in 1st 2nd and 3rd is worse than ever.

Starting to really regret the day we bought this car now.....

 

[klytus]

Hi Mark,
I have justed payed £411.80 for a 2001 jtd elx 110 of ebay maybe it would be worth doing the same and swapping out the gearbox and putting in a new clutch your self £120 odd from eurocarparts.
Marc

sorry for thread hijack
might be interested in a few minor parts if you want to sell any ?
i live local to derby
peace

 

[ukmarc]

sorry for thread hijack
might be interested in a few minor parts if you want to sell any ?
i live local to derby
peace

Its not for sale new brakes alround straight through mot best car ive had and ive had a few.........even liking the bullfrog shape

 

[flying clutchman]

Have I read this right? You had a new clutch and DMF fitted, and the garage confimed that gearbox bearing(s) needed replacing, and then put the gearbox back in? Your're now going to have to pay to have it taken out again! While it's out it's not difficult to change the front bearing (which it sounds like it needs) and oil seal. It probably has'nt done any damage to the gears, it's just noisy because the shaft's flopping around. If you don't do it v. soon it will ruin your new clutch in days.

 

[JTDman]

Have I read this right? You had a new clutch and DMF fitted, and the garage confimed that gearbox bearing(s) needed replacing, and then put the gearbox back in? Your're now going to have to pay to have it taken out again! While it's out it's not difficult to change the front bearing (which it sounds like it needs) and oil seal. It probably has'nt done any damage to the gears, it's just noisy because the shaft's flopping around. If you don't do it v. soon it will ruin your new clutch in days.

Gotta agree , why put it back together