Technical Uno Turbo kitcar engine swap

[flying dutchman]

Hi there, bit of an odd question but i've really no idea where else to go with it so I really hope you guys can help.

I've been driving an '88 Panda (i know, wrong car but bear with me ) for a few years now but despite having a real cracker of an engine she's been on her last legs in many respects for a long time and has unfortunately now been replaced, SORN'd and garaged. A few months back I bought an Onyx Firecat kitcar project, currently fitted with and Uno Turbo engine and five-speed gearbox and although the chassis is in great condition the engine has clearly seen much better days. I am really only an amateur and i'm not sure I can face re-commissioning it and sorting all the many ancillaries. So, (thanks for hanging on with me this far!) my question is this, could I transplant the engine from my panda (1000CL) to the uno turbo gearbox? The cars are from similar years so my reckoning was that because the Uno was fitted with the broadly the same engines as the Panda that maybe my engine would be a direct fit to gearbox in the kitcar. If not could anyone suggest any possible routes I could take? Thankyou so much in advance to anyone who may be able to help me,

Kind regards, Nick

 

[tipo4life]

all turbocharged cars have much longer gear ratios, so even if it all fits, your car would be undriveable, IMO. try finding a gearbox from a fire engined uno or panda (assuming your panda has a fire engine) and then try fitting it. or just transplant the whole thing from panda (engine+gearbox). hope this helps...

 

[flying dutchman]

Thanks for the heads up, I should really have thought of that... Never mind! Luckily my panda does have the Fire engine and the gearbox is in reasonable condition, unfortunately it's only a four speed so I would ideally like to replace it but if it fits, wonderful! Do you by an chance know if the driveshafts from the uno turbo will match up to the gearbox from the fire engine as they are already fitted and that would make the whole swap much easier. Thanks again for your help

 

[fostertom]

Any kind of Fire engine/box into a place where a 128-type Uno engine/box used to be, should be easy enough, as there are Fire engine/box Unos, incl appropriate driveshafts.

 

[lewey]

all turbocharged cars have much longer gear ratios, so even if it all fits, your car would be undriveable, IMO. try finding a gearbox from a fire engined uno or panda (assuming your panda has a fire engine) and then try fitting it. or just transplant the whole thing from panda (engine+gearbox). hope this helps...

This is normally true, but not in this case. Certainly from 1993 onwards the 999cc and 1108cc FIRE Unos have longer gears than the equivalent year turbo models in every gear other than 1st. I'm not kidding! I have two of each type box and I've counted the teeth!

Thanks for the heads up, I should really have thought of that... Never mind! Luckily my panda does have the Fire engine and the gearbox is in reasonable condition, unfortunately it's only a four speed so I would ideally like to replace it but if it fits, wonderful! Do you by an chance know if the driveshafts from the uno turbo will match up to the gearbox from the fire engine as they are already fitted and that would make the whole swap much easier. Thanks again for your help

I can definitely advise you accurately, but there are a lot of variables with your problem. Please post up good pictures of gearbox, shafts, CVs, etc to avoid lengthy discussions on what you have/have not got!

 

[flying dutchman]

Thankyou, that's great, I will certainly take some photos as soon as I can, though this may be a few weeks as I am located elsewhere at the moment but thanks for the kind words. With regards to the gear ratios, is it possible that the turbo charged engines produced such little torque at low revs due to lag that that alone would require lower ratios or is the reason more complex?

 

[lewey]

Sure, lag would have been one reason. Mostly it is the different markets- sporty vs. economy. The UT felt fast partly because of it's not mega-high ratios.

Slight retraction of my statement that the UT was always lower ratios- the truth is the gears and the final drive ratio changed a few times during the life of the "top-change" Uno Turbo boxes, with later boxes having a slightly higher final drive that meant it was a touch higher than the FIRE boxes. The difference is enough to notice- just.

Here is a comparison of the highest ratios they did for the Turbo, vs the standard FIRE model box:

 

[fostertom]

Lewey, that looks like a spreadsheet you've done, and I guess it has other goodies on it! I've collected (paper notes) similar data for C513/4 Puntos, Bravos, Ideas, Pandas etc, from http://www.automobile-catalog.com - don't know if reliable - so I'm wondering if you be willing to send me a copy of your spreadsheet, so I can add my data (or check against yours) instead of starting from scratch. For a start, looks like the Uno-era C514 had interestingly different ratios and FD from the later ones.

 

[tipo4life]

This is normally true, but not in this case. Certainly from 1993 onwards the 999cc and 1108cc FIRE Unos have longer gears than the equivalent year turbo models in every gear other than 1st. I'm not kidding! I have two of each type box and I've counted the teeth!

wow, didnt know that. thanx for the info

 

[lewey]

Lewey, that looks like a spreadsheet you've done, and I guess it has other goodies on it! I've collected (paper notes) similar data for C513/4 Puntos, Bravos, Ideas, Pandas etc, from http://www.automobile-catalog.com - don't know if reliable - so I'm wondering if you be willing to send me a copy of your spreadsheet, so I can add my data (or check against yours) instead of starting from scratch. For a start, looks like the Uno-era C514 had interestingly different ratios and FD from the later ones.

I'll PM you