Technical ulysse fuel pump relay

[ratheanach]

can anyone advise location of fuel pump relay in 2006 Ulysse JTD? Have problems with cutting out and failing to start; dealer diagnosed pressure regulator on injector pump not signalling ECU to operate lift pump, and advised metal filings in fuel indicated HP pump breaking up.Replaced HP pump and regulator with new recon unit, lift pump still not getting power. Fuses appear ok and no such failure showed on FIAT diagnostic. Now, engine will run with temp supply direct to lift pump, but not otherwise. Wiring diagram indicates a relay, but doesn't id it or its location.Any help appreciated.Anyone else had similar probs? How solved?

 

[avionista]

Check the fuse relay box on the off-side wing near the washer fluid reservoir. Fuse F2 is the one supplying 12V to the fuel pump. Also, pin 11 of the (grey) connector D (PP2) is the 12V feed to the fuel pump.

Normally, when you turn the ignition key, the fuel pump in the tank can be heard running and, if you don't try to start the engine, it seems to stop after a few seconds. This suggests that it cuts off after a certain pressure is reached on the supply to the fuel filter. Perhaps, there is a pressure sensor in the low pressure side of the diesel fuel supply which could affect fuel pump operation.

 

[ratheanach]

thanks for this.my problem is that there is a relay to supply the LP pump, but no one seems to know where it is! I am assuming now that it is one of the moulded in relays, integral with the fuse box, and presumably the one that is connected to connector PP2 which you mention. There should also be a fuel cut off switch which apparently deactivates the fuel pump in an emergency, but no one can tell me where it is either! the pressure sensor is in the HP pump, which has been replaced- per FIAT, this was the problem-but car still won't start.before I spend £250 to replace fuse box, I'd like to be able to test and eliminate other cheaper possibilities.

 

[FRANTIC FRAN]

Maybe try searching for your fault here

www.frenchcarforum.co.uk

 

[ratheanach]

Thanks, have tried this, find it difficult to search, but can't find anything relevant. Found a blown 30A fuse in box under dash replaced it, no difference. All other fuses tested ok, but now electric windows not working, in fact haven't been working since vehicle last with main dealer. There appears to be no power to the fuel pump pin with ignition on, but how to test if it is the fuse box relay at fault, or a sensor elsewhere? There are two wires in a moulded plug in the box, one grey the other a brown/orange colour; does anyone know their function? No power at either with ignition on.

 

[avionista]

Here is my rough translation from a French W/Shop manual which may be of assistance to you:

The relays are integrated in the interior computer (BSI) and engine fuse box and are not replaceable.

A low pressure electric pump with rollers, coupled to the fuel gauge sender, is immersed in the reservoir (fuel tank). It is controlled by the engine fuse box (terminal 11). The electrical supply to the pump is interrupted 2 to 3 seconds after switching on the ignition and is restored when the engine is running.

The fuel filter housing has a pressure regulator at the center of the housing containing the filter cartridge. It regulates the supply pressure after filtration by directing fuel to either the fuel tank or to the high pressure pump.

The low pressure fuel supply is regulated to 2.5 Bars.

It might be a good idea to check the operation of the low pressure regulator on the filter housing and its wiring.

 

[avionista]

Hi

On re-reading my French manual, the fuel pressure regulator in the fuel filter may be mechanical i.e. it releases fuel back to the tank once a pressure of 2.5 Bars is reached.

I have now discovered that the timed fuel cut-off relay in the engine bay fusebox is supplied by Fuse 8. If this fuse is blown, it could prevent a supply getting to the pump via terminal 11.

 

[ratheanach]

many thanks for this, Avionista. Fuse 8 is ok, as are all others. There appears to be no power at any of the pins on PP2. I can't hear the fuel pump relay operate, but the wiper relay makes an audible click when operated, and I know that the similar box in Scudo give trouble with failing relays. The absence of sound suggests the relay is the culprit- but a new box seems an expensive fix. I had hoped to try and rig an ignition controlled bypass, but the wiring is an absolute nightmare, and none of the diagrams I have been able to get (Elearn and Emanual) are of any real use. Looks like a new box, will let y'all know in due course. Many thanks for your assistance.

 

[avionista]

As you say, these Branch Control Units are quite expensive, see the link beleow:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sicherungskasten-Lancia-Phedra-179-Fiat-Ulysse-9650663880-Fuse-box-/230923962719?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item35c424095f

 

[ratheanach]

Thanks again! Had a look at this, the item pictured is literally half the price of the part I need, but unfortunately is completely different. There seems to be a different fuse box in every vehicle I've seen, and the chances of getting a s/h unit seem impossibly remote....so, I've bitten the bullet and ordered the new box, should be here Thursday, £195 plus VAT- hope it solves the problem. Will post to let you know. Once again, many thanks for your assistance.


Regards, Chris

 

[avionista]

It is probably too late if you have already bought a new unit from the dealer but I physically checked my engine fuse box and my part number is 9650664080 BSM B3, (Fiat Ulysse, Prestigio, 2.0 JTD, 2003, VAN/CAN bus vehicle).

Links to units available on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-807-CITROEN-C8-BSM-BOARD-FUSE-BOX-9650664080-/221243237967?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item33831fe64f

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-307-2-0-HDI-110-BHP-Under-Bonnet-Fuse-Box-Delphi-BSM-B3-9650664080-/321160571254?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4ac6a96976

 

[ratheanach]

Avionista.....you're right, it is too late, but neither of the parts shown at the ebay links are even remotely like mine... I don't have the part number to hand at the moment, but will post it later. In any event, collected the new part yesterday and fitted it late afternoon......bear in mind vehicle is half disassembled... hooked it all up, turned on ignition, and fuel pump activated immediately, and electric windows started to work again also! Couldn't start vehicle as coolant hoses and expansion tank removed, but I'm pretty confident problem solved at last. Many thanks to all of you who took the time to respond.

Regards, Chris

 

[FRANTIC FRAN]

Probably different to those as your's is probably CAN and not VAN?

 

[ratheanach]

right guys, the saga continues.Collected car yesterday, running sweet;mechanic had it running from saturday, no problems. Started it 0530 this morning, drove 40 miles to work, no problem. Parked up at 0615, started vehicle again at about 1530, drove a few yards, and it started to miss....it idles ok, but when the throttle is pressed, there is no response initially, then the revs will rise, almost as though the throttle was sticking, or like a flat spot in a carburettor. Drove on for a few miles, miss only evident at certain spots, eg, cruising at say 40mph, then take foot off throttle, definite loss of power, no initial response to throttle, then picks up and drives ok. It does not cut out- putting into neutral, it remains at idle speed. It settled down when warm , and I drove home with no recurrence. My daughter, whose car it is, says that this happened periodically prior to the stoppage four weeks ago; I think-I hope- it is a separate fault from the fuel pump relay, but am scared to think where this fault may lie -main ECU? Anyone come across similar? And Fran- I don't know at what point Fiat changed from VAN to CAN, but my Ulysse is a 2006 model, and parts for this and later years seem to be very thin on the ground....and how good are second hand electronic parts likely to be anyway?

 

[ratheanach]

Incidentally, no warning lights or messages appear when this happens.

 

[avionista]

The earlier Ulysse models were fitted with a VAN/CAN bus system and I believe they changed to CAN/CAN in 2005. Your car (2006) will certainly be a CAN/CAN bus model.

If you enter your VIN number into the ePer parts catalogue (on the blue menu at the top of this page) you should be able to determine the part numbers of components fitted to your car.

 

[lpt2007]

Can someone tell me which pins on BSM B5 unite supply power to EDC15C2 3 plug ecu.

Any advice where can I get whole wiring for LANCIA PHEDRA 2.2JTD yera 2004(i think Fiat Ulysse have the same wiring).

thanx in advance :bang:

 

[lpt2007]

Check the fuse relay box on the off-side wing near the washer fluid reservoir. Fuse F2 is the one supplying 12V to the fuel pump. Also, pin 11 of the (grey) connector D (PP2) is the 12V feed to the fuel pump.

Normally, when you turn the ignition key, the fuel pump in the tank can be heard running and, if you don't try to start the engine, it seems to stop after a few seconds. This suggests that it cuts off after a certain pressure is reached on the supply to the fuel filter. Perhaps, there is a pressure sensor in the low pressure side of the diesel fuel supply which could affect fuel pump operation.

What means If no power on fuse F2 with ignition on?