Technical TwinAir oil min/max

[nemchenk]

I've looked through the manual, searched this forum, and Googled, but I still can't figure out where the min/max lines are on a TwinAir dipstick?

Is it the "pinched" area, about 3cm at the bottom of the stick?

Many thanks in advance,

nemchenk

 

[Andy Monty]

yes its the Hatched area #######

see here

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-guides/290540-fiat-500-basic-weekly-fluid-checks.html?p=2934938


(i know its done on a 1.2 but all the fiat engines i have tinkered with use the same crimped/ hatched area close to the end is minimum

this is showing between 3/4 to full

https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98119&d=1326553014

 

[nemchenk]

Right. The TA dipstick is actually plastic, but the same applies.

I need to put some oil in mine urgently :O And it's a new engine, too! :'(

 

[Andy Monty]

Msake sure you get the correct grade oil for it! its hard to get hold of i think its 10-40 C3 spec (that is off the top of my head just check your handbook first)

 

[bgunn]

On the TA, it's the smooth round cross section area at the bottom of the + cross section dipstick..

Selenia KPE is the stuff you need.

 

[iangray100]

Hi ,

Castrol EDGE 5W-40 Synthetic ( available in Halford etc ) confirms to FIAT standard for the TA

Castrol EDGE Specification :

ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, C3
API SN/CF
BMW Longlife-04
Meets Fiat 9.55535-S2 .............FOR THE TA etc !!!
GM dexos2
MB-Approval 229.31/ 229.51
Porsche A40
Renault RN 0700 / RN 0710
VW 502 00/ 505 00


As a comparison here is Selenia KPE Date specification:

AE 5W-40,
ACEA C3,
API SM/CF,
FIAT 9.55535-S2 CONTRACTUAL TECHNICAL REFERENCE N°F603.C07, MB-Approval 229.51,
VW 502.00-505.00,
VW 505.01,
BMW LL-04

 

[TrevC]

According to the manual, make sure the oil cap/dipstick top is screwed down when dipping - if you just dip it normally you'll get an artificially low reading. Apologies if you've read the manual and done this.

 

[nemchenk]

Thanks for that, guys. Yes, I made sure to screw down the cap again to get the reading. The handbook just says 5W40 synthetic, so I grabbed some of that. It won't be in there for long anyways, since I plan to do an oil and filter change at 3000, and I am half-way there already. Another month or so, and it will be time to change it out.

Where's a good source of TA parts? I've looked at some of the sites people have mentioned here and have not found TA stuff on there

 

[Andy Monty]

my mistake i was half asleep this morning ;-)




what parts you after?

oil filter here:

http://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Details&ProdID=5868&sku=14799

 

[wigit]

without consulting the handbook i remember getting the grade oil for the TA was a right pain in the backside as halfrauds only stocked it on own brand, in the end i got some shell helix to tide me over, suggest opie oils on line if you want a stock

TA dipstick pathetic or should i say masterclass in cost saving

 

[Andy Monty]

it was a pain last year to even find listed let alone get hold of the local motorfactors who can usually get everything failed to find me any at the time Motul and Fulchs were the only 2 outside of fiat selina i could find anywhere on tinternet

now comma and castrol are doing its getting more common

http://www.commaoil.com/productsguide/view/6/177

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/iframe.do?categoryId=9024084&contentId=7044829

 

[TrevC]

Getting a compliant oil shouldn't be too hard - as Ian posts above, Castrol Edge 5W-40 is suitable, and my local Homebase keeps that. Not cheap, though. Regarding the TA dipstick, the last time I encountered one like it was on a lawnmower! However, in its favour, it does the job and is easy to get to without getting your hands dirty.

 

[jrkitching]

Castrol Edge 5W-40 is suitable, and my local Homebase keeps that. Not cheap, though.

£35 for 4 litres in my local ASDA yesterday. Can often be bought cheaper in Costco (but you need to be a member).

It's a generous 4 litres, too - I got almost 3 oil changes out of 2 bottles . I replace mine every 8k, and thus far haven't needed to top up between changes on either my 500 or my Panda . Add on a fiver for a genuine FIAT filter - that's cheap servicing .

 

[frupi]

I think Fuchs (5 litres) at just under 30 quid (minus postage) from Opie Oils is still a good buy. It is most certainly up to spec and personally, I'd have no issue using it. In fact I would have used it had my local independent been about to service the wife's 500, but seeing as I've now struck a good deal with a Fiat dealer to do the oil and filter change, I suppose they'll be sticking Selenia in it anyway. Oh by the way, I asked about engine flush (mentioned in a previous oil posting) and the dealer definitely does not use it, so despite my many years of sticking it in my previous motors (without problems), I'll gladly take the advice of the dealer and not use it in the 500. I know, I know, I was advised of this anyway by some of the excellent contributors on this forum. I'll shut me gob, 'nuff said!

 

[frupi]

Just noticed on their advert that you get a free one litre bottle with the 5 litres.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pv-67425-...ngine-oil-5-litres-plus-a-1l-bottle-free.aspx

 

[loveshandbags]

I think Fuchs (5 litres) at just under 30 quid (minus postage) from Opie Oils is still a good buy. It is most certainly up to spec and personally, I'd have no issue using it. In fact I would have used it had my local independent been about to service the wife's 500, but seeing as I've now struck a good deal with a Fiat dealer to do the oil and filter change, I suppose they'll be sticking Selenia in it anyway. Oh by the way, I asked about engine flush (mentioned in a previous oil posting) and the dealer definitely does not use it, so despite my many years of sticking it in my previous motors (without problems), I'll gladly take the advice of the dealer and not use it in the 500. I know, I know, I was advised of this anyway by some of the excellent contributors on this forum. I'll shut me gob, 'nuff said!

Not unless you specially ask for it and are prepared to pay a little extra.

One of the benefits of specifying a specific brand of oil is that when you top up it is exactly the same and has the benefit of stretching the life of the oil (click here). This is only of any real significance if the car is turbo charged and it's in a demanding situation e.g. track use or hot climates. Given that the TA is a new breed of Multi-air with a wee turbo and they are all currently in warranty IMHO I would specify Selenia KPE 5w40 and pay the little extra. In the highly unlikely event of any 'mis-haps' you are 100% covered without any lengthy explanations.

My current car with a T-jet tuned to a 155bhp is using 5w40 whilst the same engine in the Abarth 500 in the same state of tune is using 10w50. The Castrol link that was posted gives a recommended oil of 5w40 for the standard A500 which is different to the more up-to-date handbook recommendation of 10w50. Highly unlikely that they would be any changes of the oil specification or the recommended interval for the Twin air but given the changes to service oil intervals and cam belt changes for other models / marques it pays to 'keep in the know'.

 

[frupi]

Not unless you specially ask for it and are prepared to pay a little extra.

One of the benefits of specifying a specific brand of oil is that when you top up it is exactly the same and has the benefit of stretching the life of the oil (click here). This is only of any real significance if the car is turbo charged and it's in a demanding situation e.g. track use or hot climates. Given that the TA is a new breed of Multi-air with a wee turbo and they are all currently in warranty IMHO I would specify Selenia KPE 5w40 and pay the little extra. In the highly unlikely event of any 'mis-haps' you are 100% covered without any lengthy explanations.

My current car with a T-jet tuned to a 155bhp is using 5w40 whilst the same engine in the Abarth 500 in the same state of tune is using 10w50. The Castrol link that was posted gives a recommended oil of 5w40 for the standard A500 which is different to the more up-to-date handbook recommendation of 10w50. Highly unlikely that they would be any changes of the oil specification or the recommended interval for the Twin air but given the changes to service oil intervals and cam belt changes for other models / marques it pays to 'keep in the know'.

Mmm, well now you've raised another little issue. Is there an intimation that a Fiat service dealer won't be putting Selenia in our car come service time? Especially when that is the recommended lubricant to put in the engine by Fiat? I can almost guarantee, if I ask that question to the servicing dealer, they'll say 'Of course we use the recommended brand of lubricant Sir'. Or perhaps I'm just being incredibly naive? One thing's for sure, I will never know will I, unless they let me stand next to the technician re-filling the engine and I can see it's being poured from a Selenia carton. Basically, it's a trust thing isn't it?

I'm also fully aware that mixing brands of oil is not recommended. The Opie link I put in for the oil clearly states that too. I check the oil on our own 500 weekly and to be fair, the oil level on the dipper is still 3/4 of the way into the hatched area. It certainly doesn't appear to have burnt much oil in the 4 1/2 months that we've owned it. I'm afraid I can't be getting into all of the chemistry involved in deciding which oil is apparently better than another. I'll leave that to the purists that will only use manufacturer 'recommended' (oil in this case). The key word in there is 'recommended', no where in my handbook does it say it is 'compulsory' to use the same brand of oil as was put in at manufacture. If it meets the manufacturer specification and you can prove through servicing invoices that the correct spec was used at the time, then I cannot see how anyone would have a problem with a warranty issue.

 

[loveshandbags]

Mmm, well now you've raised another little issue. Is there an intimation that a Fiat service dealer won't be putting Selenia in our car come service time? Especially when that is the recommended lubricant to put in the engine by Fiat? I can almost guarantee, if I ask that question to the servicing dealer, they'll say 'Of course we use the recommended brand of lubricant Sir'. Or perhaps I'm just being incredibly naive? One thing's for sure, I will never know will I, unless they let me stand next to the technician re-filling the engine and I can see it's being poured from a Selenia carton. Basically, it's a trust thing isn't it?

I'm also fully aware that mixing brands of oil is not recommended. The Opie link I put in for the oil clearly states that too. I check the oil on our own 500 weekly and to be fair, the oil level on the dipper is still 3/4 of the way into the hatched area. It certainly doesn't appear to have burnt much oil in the 4 1/2 months that we've owned it. I'm afraid I can't be getting into all of the chemistry involved in deciding which oil is apparently better than another. I'll leave that to the purists that will only use manufacturer 'recommended' (oil in this case). The key word in there is 'recommended', no where in my handbook does it say it is 'compulsory' to use the same brand of oil as was put in at manufacture. If it meets the manufacturer specification and you can prove through servicing invoices that the correct spec was used at the time, then I cannot see how anyone would have a problem with a warranty issue.

This is the link which covers your engine flush debate (click here) where I 'discovered' that Fiat don't generally use Selenia oil but use a similiar spec. It is only head cases like me that would be concerned with such things but I did get an almighty shock one day on the 1.4 after checking the dip stick when the engine got a little tappety . This loss of oil does not seem to be an issue on the 1.2 - don't know about the Twin Air.

I'm only splitting hairs about the Selenia KPE and an equivalent ACEA C3 5w40 (petrols) with a ACEA C2 5w30 (diesels) but when it comes to topping up it makes it simple if you have a litre of the 'right stuff' handy. I remember Maxi recommending carrying a litre handy in the car if you were doing a European tour. That's what I will have if I do one this year. I also remember Tony's Twin Air that lost all its engine oil 'a few miles up the road'. On the service history on the recent car I bought they used semi-syn - they were lucky that it wasn't a multi-air.

 

[frupi]

Yes, I remember the debate well!! As I mentioned earlier, I accept the engine flush is not recommended or indeed a good idea in the 500. That being said, it won't stop me using it in my Neon (which I still have, but garaged).

As for oil top ups, completely agree it is wise to carry a litre of the 'right stuff' in the boot. I will make a point of asking and ensuring I know what oil the dealer will be stuffing into our 500, so if it definitely is Selenia, I can buy a litre pack. There's a bloke local to me that sells it for 12 quid a litre (inc vat), so I'll get some from him 'coz I bet it's cheaper than the dealer!

 

[loveshandbags]

Yes, I remember the debate well!! As I mentioned earlier, I accept the engine flush is not recommended or indeed a good idea in the 500. That being said, it won't stop me using it in my Neon (which I still have, but garaged).

As for oil top ups, completely agree it is wise to carry a litre of the 'right stuff' in the boot. I will make a point of asking and ensuring I know what oil the dealer will be stuffing into our 500, so if it definitely is Selenia, I can buy a litre pack. There's a bloke local to me that sells it for 12 quid a litre (inc vat), so I'll get some from him 'coz I bet it's cheaper than the dealer!

I was charged €15 + vat a litre for the KPE because he would have had to order the 5 litre in advance to get a cheaper price. He ended up buying 4 x 1 litre containers using 3 and giving me one and 'charging' me . I only told him on the day of the oil change - I should have told him in advance.