Technical Tipo Diesel Help Please...

[mr_lizard]

Hi,

I'm hoping that the experience of everyone on the forum can help with a problem I have with my Tipo diesel. The car is a 1994 on an M-plate and has the 1.7 non-turbo lump (engine code 149b4?)

Since I bought the car in april, i have covered about 1500 miles and have had no problems, despite the car having 118,000 miles on the clock. All hoses, belts and wiring seem to be in good condition.

My current problem is the car has suddenly (overnight) developed a starting problem. Last week the car started fine and I did a long journey of 180 miles. The next morning the engine will not start, and the glowplug light comes on and goes off immediately. The engine turns over on the starter fine. Had a look on the web (including this site) and found that the glowplugs were possibly at fault. Bought some new plugs but had insufficent tools with me to change them, and ended up calling out recovery who got the car started immediately using the Easystart trick. Drove the car back home again 180 miles with no problems whatsoever, and starting was fine once engine is at temperature (say 70C?).

Been looking at this over the weekend with a view to changing the glow plugs, but access is restricted by the fuel system and it looks like I may only be able to change 3 of the four plugs. Have tried to use a glowplug ring spanner with ratchet to remove the plugs but I cannot shift them, and do not want to damage the head as fixing the damage would be more than the car is worth. Anyone have any advice on how to change these easily???

When I try and start the car now, the glow plug light comes and goes off immediately, and you can hear a relay click as the light goes off. The click seems to come from the passenger side of the car. Have looked in the engine bay and found a unit mounted to the rear of the battery tray that appears to be the glow plug relay. The unit seems to have positive and negative feed to it, with the third wire (brown) going to the glowplug bar. I'm assuming that this is the relay. The unit has some text visible:

Fiat/Lancia
A131
CCD 17
12V

Is it possible that that glowplugs are actually ok, and that the relay is the problem? Any ideas on price for a new relay?

I need the car running again, but money is tight and I do not want to try and force the glow plugs if is possible that they are ok. The engine will fire with Easystart and will run fine, and provided the engine is around 65-70C or higher it will start ok and run fine.

Apologies for the long post, just trying to cover everything that has happened and what I have done. Look forward to your thoughts...

Thanks,
Tony

 

[Trancendental]

I'm no diesel man but from what you have described it sounds like the charging of the glow plugs are being tripped off like as if a fuse were to have blown.

I you can remove plugs, do so and clean all contacts, check for loose wiring/earthing in that area.

 

[Ziomike]

I have a Tempra diesel, and have changed the glow plugs several times, it's tight but they can all be got at. (The Tipo is a cutdown Tempra)

Poor starting is usually down to the glow plugs and they can go suddenly.
If you have a multimeter (voltMeter) check the voltage (to chassis) on the glowplug bar where the brown wire comes in, when the ignition is turned on it should be somewhere around 12v (but can be down to 10V or so depending on battery state and wiring).

This voltage will be there for about 1 minute or so, the light on the dashboard only stays on for a few seconds. If you have the voltage, the relay and fuse are ok. (The fuse I believe is at the back right corner of the engine compartment, in a squareish box, 40A, I've never had problems with this or the relay in 150,000 miles).

If your voltage is missing check the fuse and or relay, the brown wire may even be faulty.

To change the glow plugs, remove the battery +ve lead for safety, there are lots of amps here. Remove the small nut on each plug with a small ring spanner and the remove the bar. With a larger ring spanner remove each glow plug, it's tight for space but can be done, I have many times, the plugs can be *VERY* tight in the block. I have needed to use the ring spanner with another as lever to get a plug undone.

Each plug can be checked for resistance to see it they are ok, again with the multimeter set to ohms check the small connection bolt to the plug body, they should be less than 1ohm, anything above this is faulty, all four should be the same. You only need to replace the faulty ones. The plugs can burn out so that the heater bit off the end is missing, usually they go open circuit, more than 1ohm to a heater plug is open circuit.

Replacement is the reverse of removal, tighten up the plug firmly, when doing up the small nuts on the the commoning bar don't tighten too much, and remember to put back the brown wire !, whole job takes about 30mins to an hour. Recconect battery!

 

[Hellcat]

I might get told off for this but I think the 1.7 diesel is used in the Uno too. There it is much more common, and people might have answers for you. I'm afraid my diesel experience is limited to the 1.9 TD Tipo/Tempra.

 

[Fast Finger]

I had the same problem.
There was a small wire at the fron of the engine bay, near the starter that had come loose. Not sure what it was actually for but once reconnected it started fine.

 

[mr_lizard]

Thanks to everyone who has replied with help and advice.

I'd previously checked all the wiring, and was fairly confident that everything was ok. As this is my first diesel, I was not aware that glowplugs have a little more movement when removing/fitting when compared with spark plugs. All glow plugs have now been changed, and the common bar has been cleaned up with some sandpaper to ensure a good connection, the same goes for the feed wire from the relay. After changing the plugs, the dashboard light is behaving as it used to and I am pleased to report the car fired up on the first attempt, and is driving ok.

Tony

 

[Sedicivalvole]

Well done guys i am proud of you all

 

[Ziomike]

I had the same problem.
There was a small wire at the fron of the engine bay, near the starter that had come loose. Not sure what it was actually for but once reconnected it started fine.

That was probably the connection to the starter solenoid from the ignition switch, no connection, car will not turn over.

 

[Ziomike]

After changing the plugs, the dashboard light is behaving as it used to and I am pleased to report the car fired up on the first attempt, and is driving ok.Tony

Something i've noticed with my Tempra diesel and it may be apparent on other Fiat diesels. During the winter especially, if you start and it runs a little "lumpy" for about 15-30 seconds and gradually gets better, thats one of the glowplugs gone, not a sticking injector.

You dont need to take them all out to check, just take the commoning bar off and then check each one in situ with a multimeter. I've had it reccomended that you change all glowplugs at once, but I don't and I've not had and problems, cheaper that way as well.

Glad you got it fixed Tony.