General Sound deadening

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General Sound deadening

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I have an 84 Uno 70s that has no rust in the bottom of the doors. I am going to clean the dist out and want to coat the doors with something to make sure the rust doesn't get in there.

I am thinking of using a spray on rubberized coating.
I am also thinking of spraying a coating on the inside of the doors in an attempt to deaden/absorb the sound.

Will this work, or do others have a better or different suggestion.
 
It works well as a sound deadener but its heavy & also eventually "dries out" & cracks (especially when used in sunny countries when used on the inside of outer skins), & can then cause rust more than prevent it.

Are you primerily rustproofing or sound deadening Rawill?

I have an 84 Uno 70s that has no rust in the bottom of the doors. I am going to clean the dist out and want to coat the doors with something to make sure the rust doesn't get in there.

I am thinking of using a spray on rubberized coating.
I am also thinking of spraying a coating on the inside of the doors in an attempt to deaden/absorb the sound.

Will this work, or do others have a better or different suggestion.
 
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What we do is paint the inside of the door. Then we use what we call 'Road in a can' its a black bitumen substance that comes in a 1ltr can.

We paint it on with a brush very liberally and for added sound proofing we use it to stick on pieces of floor lino to aid sound proofing.
 
Thanks guys, great ideas.

I had been thinking of using Zinc spray inside the doors before I coated them with rubber spray.

So I will go with your suggestions
I guess any vinyl would do.

Not sure what to do with my Rover now :bang: I used the rubberised spray in the doors of it a few years ago.
 
The best vinyl to use is the stuff you get out of a skip behind the floor laying company :) thats where we get ours from :) The stuff in my Red uno is this pretty pattern with gold colouring :) looks great covered in black gunk.

As for the rubber stuff, just make sure you maintain it. The mistake most people make is to believe the work they do is going to last forever. Just open up the door every now and then and spray some fish oil or something should work great.
 
The best vinyl to use is the stuff you get out of a skip behind the floor laying company :) thats where we get ours from :) The stuff in my Red uno is this pretty pattern with gold colouring :) looks great covered in black gunk.

As for the rubber stuff, just make sure you maintain it. The mistake most people make is to believe the work they do is going to last forever. Just open up the door every now and then and spray some fish oil or something should work great.

Great thinking, we just might have one of those stores here too. (y)

When I finally get my 73 Rover P6B back on the road, it will spend most of its time in my shed! If that makes any sense. It will be parked alongside my 5/1/84 70S, and my 92 Saab 900s, and the 93 9000 griffin. :)
 
There's something about the P6, isn't there. Real character. Does yours have the V8?

-Alex

Oops, off-topic, ah well, James already said everything I would have said, except that his flooring vinyl was fake parquet-flooring with silver 'studs', very tasteful and does indeed look great when plastered with black funky gunk. Makes you wonder why we don't have it in our houses.

Basically what you are trying to do is add some mass to the steel for sound-deadening - for rustproofing, you just want to create a waxy waterway so that water runs off like off a duck's back. I think another important component is the furry rubber seal under the window; that makes a big reduction in the amount of water in the door.

Years ago I helped an old guy build a water feature in his garden. It depended on a black plastic liner to contain the water. Well, it had a leak. I suggested covering it with underseal gunk, reasoning that would make it waterproof. And hey, guess what? It didn't! I was surprised and disappointed :(

I think some of the best stuff is CRC 'soft seal'. Comes in a green and white aerosol can. It stays soft and keeps water out of seams etc.

But as James said before, another way to keep water out of seams is simply to clean up inside the door and paint it with usual topcoat paint. I'd follow that with the 'soft seal' or any other type of rustproofing wax just in case the paint cracks - but I'd think twice about road-in-a-can (underseal) since, if it's too thick, it might dry out and crack, and then might let water through and trap water underneath.

For the record, I think underseal absolutely sucks under a car as well - it makes a mess and has a dubious success rate. The best solution is to wire-brush back to clean steel, etch-prime, then spray with textured stone-chip coating, and overpaint with top-coat paint (like the original). Again, the water will run straight off that way. And it looks so much better.
 
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Yes about the P6B.

A little information required here alex. The P6 refers to the shape, mine has the boxy grille. The P6B, = B for Buick, being the V8 motor Rover 'stole' from Buick. The gas turbine motor was never a real winner, way too much lag.

Yes way off topic, sorry guys.


OK so I know what I am up to on the rust proofing now. Will get that done before I put my new window regulator in.
 
If your only after rustproofing then I wouldnt go the bitumen route, its going to simply add weight that you dont need (I`m sure the hinges will agree with me!) & if you go too mad it can block the vents, create loads of mess & smell & divert the water to other places that`ll rust instead....

On very hot days, expect it to turn into a semi liquid, dripping down the insides of the doors, blocking up the lock mechinism, dripping out the door drains, down the sills, on the floor/road/drive/garage floor, neatly allowing your to trample it all over your carpets in the car or house without realising...

The other pain in the arse think with bitumen is if you have to work inside the door in the future (window mechs, locks, speakers if fitted etc), you just end up with tar all over the place, on your clothes, ripping the hair out your arms etc... (n)

"Zink" spray only works on bare metal. Ideally you dont want to rub down to any bare metal as that would be removing the galvanised layer.

Zink paint is bo***s in my opionion. People seem to think they spray it on (often over other paint) & like a miracle, the cars galvanised... if it was that easy, every car would be galvanised! its just glorified primer.

Rust doesnt occur in the middle of vertical panels, it occurs when theres a join, i.e. round the edges where it joins the frame, round the hinges & locks & round the strengthening beam where it sometimes has a slight gap between it & the skin, the gap is usually so small it slowly builds up dust & grit which attracts moisture & slowly rusts it out.

Also the seam sealer (between the skin & frame) & blobs of adhesive (attaching the skin to the beam if fitted) eventually harden & crack, creating unpainted crevices for water & dirt to build up against bare metal.

Buy yourself a Waxoyl aerosol & simply go round the areas mentioned above with the long thin nozzle provided.

Waxoyl works best when warm, it `flows` into crevices better when put in a pan of warm water (bath temp, not boiling or it`ll explode!) for a few minutes prior to using it.

Also remove the window seals to check it hasnt been rubbing through the paint & rusting, if it has, treat it, then cut sections of insulating tape & put them where it was rubbing, then rub over the whole lip with vaseline.

Take the opportunity to clean the dust & grit off the inside of the weatherstrip, that`ll stop your glass getting scratched. Then replace the weatherstrip.

Do the same behind the mirror gusset.

Somewhere else that rusts in that area is the door step part of the sill. This seems to occur when dirt builds up between the sill & weatherstrip.

To get rid of it, undo the screws on the carpet edge trims, remove them, pull the weatherstrips off the top of the sills, give them a thorough wash & brush, treat any rust behind them, paint, rustproof & put it all back together.

If you`ve got time, take the rear trims off the inside of the rear wings & do the same thing round the outer to inner arch joins, then jack the rear up as high as your axle stands can safely go (so it flows down the lower inner to outer sill joins to the front end & doesnt just drip out the first hole). , tape up the sill drain holes & spray (with the wide nozzle) a load inside the lower rear wing & sills Remember to remove the tape after.

Ideally you should do that with a proper sill rustproofing kit which is basically a pump with a 4` length of washer tube with the end hole blocked up a loads of small holes round the end of the tube, you shove the tube all the way down your sills from the other end, pump up the can with the pump & press the trigger, slowly drawing the tube back through the sill, this completely coats the inside of the sills & inner membrain panel.

If you`ve got any more time, unbolt the lower wing to sill bolts, clean all the mud & dirt out & spray it over the inside of the lower wing & upper sill join.

Remove the headlights & indicators, look up under the slam panel, theres likely to be rust there (especially where the front panel joins the inner wings behind the indicators). treat it, paint it & rustproof it.

You can do the bottom of the boot lid & leading edge of the bonnet too.

Externally, the main problem areas are the rear turret to inner arch joins & the seatbelt reinforcement points. its best to use a stonechip type paint here (after dealing with any rust).

The underside will have a rubberised underseal on from Fiat. This is great when new, but age hardens & the leading edges of the sills & floorpans get a constant stonechipping from crap thrown up by the wheels, this breaks the rubber underseal & causes water, in effect, to be jetwashed between it & the metalwork every time your drive in the wet (& 50 times worse when theres salt on the roads or the cars regularly near the sea).

The underseal then starts to do more damage than it prevents, causing LOADS of hidden rust to occur in a giant rubber water sack! The process starts to occur after 6-10 years after the cars made depending on mileage, how well its been maintained/cleaned & if its been kept on top of (Fiat were suposed to reapply the rubber coating every year during the rustproofing check for the anti corrosion warranty, you know, the one no one ever bothers with!). The First you`ll know about it is an MOT failure for rust, & when you start to pull back the now loose & damaged rubber underseal & find a rust patch 6" bigger than the 2" hole you could see, you`ll realise how it fails.

If your floor isnt rusty, I`d recomend to you extend the lower part of the factory under arch mud shield by 2" so the stonechipping doesnt occur in the first place.

Repeat the rust proofing every few years & your car (any car) should remain rust free indefinately! (y)

Oh & I had a P6 as well, a 1975 2200 in burgandy. Not fast, but felt very nice to be in. I also had an 86 2600 Vanden Plas auto in moonraker blue which I loved.

P6`s rust rather well too dont they... (no, its not mine!)
 

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Excellent summary there (y)

Note that we suggested using the bitumen-type underseal as a 'glue' for holding the squares of vinyl in place. The stuff available here probably doesn't melt as easily as the stuff available in (often colder but sometimes hotter) England.

I would only add that 'Waxoyl' isn't available in NZ. Dinitrol is a similar product, and the CRC Soft-Seal I mentioned is about the same.

I completely agree with the sentiments regarding Zinc-rich primer... only any use on bare metal and even then, I don't think it's any more effective than a standard etch primer.

I wonder what FIAT used to 'touch up' the coating during the rust-warranty inspections? Perhaps they just sprayed the whole lot with something waxy/oily? I doubt that was as durable as the original coating, but I guess it was less likely to trap water and probably sealed up any cracks.

-Alex
 
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The 'recipe' for waxoyl is on the net. A mixture of turpentine and beeswax. Inside the bottom of the doors to about 75 mm up from the bottom, of my 84 70s there is a black coating that looks like was a rust treatment. It is also visible in other places. So maybe someone got in there before and that is the reason the car has no rust in the bottom of the doors like my other 84.
 
Cheers Alex, years of owning a selection of rust prone cars has taught me well :D

As you know, we have huge extremes in the UK, some hot spells in recent years have resulted in roads melting (& many home owners with tarmac drives wrecking hall carpets!)..

1 of the main things I love about the Uno is the lack of weight, sticking 5kg of tar in the doors to reduce the noise by 2db goes against my Colin Chapman philosopy!

If your going to soundproof anywhere, do the bulkhead & maybe the bootfloor...

Having said that, I completely cavity filled my old Uno at the back because of the sound system I had at the time!

I also once had to stick a load of sound deadening pads in the doorskins of an RX7 for a customer (his instructions), not to reduce noise but because they were so light, you had trouble shutting the doors! but, 18 months later the hinges were knackered...

Dynatrol is actually a much better product than waxoyl, but it costs significantly more & is harder to get hold of.

I have no idea what dealers used, if anything. When I worked for Alfa they didnt used to bother, in fact I cant even recall any customers coming back for annual inspections...

The irritating thing is, if manufacturers (all of em) made spash shields an inch or 2 longer, it would irradicate the stone chipping problem completely..


Excellent summary there (y)

Note that we suggested using the bitumen-type underseal as a 'glue' for holding the squares of vinyl in place. The stuff available here probably doesn't melt as easily as the stuff available in (often colder but sometimes hotter) England.

I would only add that 'Waxoyl' isn't available in NZ. Dinitrol is a similar product, and the CRC Soft-Seal I mentioned is about the same.

I completely agree with the sentiments regarding Zinc-rich primer... only any use on bare metal and even then, I don't think it's any more effective than a standard etch primer.

I wonder what FIAT used to 'touch up' the coating during the rust-warranty inspections? Perhaps they just sprayed the whole lot with something waxy/oily? I doubt that was as durable as the original coating, but I guess it was less likely to trap water and probably sealed up any cracks.

-Alex
 
All Fiats have that brown wax stuff from factory, or were suposed to. It has a distinctive smell that reminds me of "new Fiat"!

Turps & beeswax mixed in a simmering saucepan would be fairly similar, but I`d imagine theres also some kind of preservatives in Waxoyl to prevent the wax drying out.

It might work if you had a much higher ratio of turps to wax, as turps is a rust inhibitor on its own, but obviously, the thinner it is, the messier it gets & the the more affected with heat at lower temps...

The 'recipe' for waxoyl is on the net. A mixture of turpentine and beeswax. Inside the bottom of the doors to about 75 mm up from the bottom, of my 84 70s there is a black coating that looks like was a rust treatment. It is also visible in other places. So maybe someone got in there before and that is the reason the car has no rust in the bottom of the doors like my other 84.
 
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