General Save me from myself! Going to buy a 2.4

[lanciaman]

Have decided to take the plunge and get a 2.4. So I know I will end up having to replace the springs, alternator and who knows what. Anyone with a shotgun please come and see me........

So I will have the 115k eleganza up for sale soon. New Spring going on it this weekend - to complement the one that went on 2 months ago. New battery and it will be back to full health.

I admit here and now I am an idiot to sell it and spend more than twice what mine is worth on something the same age.....

 

[DoIDon'tI]

You won't need an alternator - the 2.4 one is higher rated and is mounted in a different location so is not prone to failure in the same way as the 1.9 one is. Can't give cheerful news on the spring front though - the rear springs are the same across the range but at least the front ones are unique to the 2.4 cars so have been suitably beefed up.

If you get really fed up with back springs breaking and can live with a harder ride, fit Vectra Estate rear springs, they're much thicker than the Croma ones.

And the rest of the car is still a Croma, so you've still got EGR issues / door handles / seat cushions / skydome problems to fight with, in addition to the joyous task that is a cambelt change

Good luck, I've done 55K in my 2.4 now (68K total) and seem to have reached a point where I just accept that the car has a mind of its own and occasionally does random things. When you don't worry about them, life becomes less stressful

Then you look at Elearn and every job you look at starts with "this job cannot be carried out with the engine in place" Not kidding - check out the water pump change, alternator change, cambelt change, inlet manifold removal etc etc. The Vectra engine bay was never, ever designed to take a five-cylinder engine...what were they thinking?

 

[lanciaman]

You won't need an alternator - the 2.4 one is higher rated and is mounted in a different location so is not prone to failure in the same way as the 1.9 one is. Can't give cheerful news on the spring front though - the rear springs are the same across the range but at least the front ones are unique to the 2.4 cars so have been suitably beefed up.

If you get really fed up with back springs breaking and can live with a harder ride, fit Vectra Estate rear springs, they're much thicker than the Croma ones.

And the rest of the car is still a Croma, so you've still got EGR issues / door handles / seat cushions / skydome problems to fight with, in addition to the joyous task that is a cambelt change

Good luck, I've done 55K in my 2.4 now (68K total) and seem to have reached a point where I just accept that the car has a mind of its own and occasionally does random things. When you don't worry about them, life becomes less stressful

Then you look at Elearn and every job you look at starts with "this job cannot be carried out with the engine in place" Not kidding - check out the water pump change, alternator change, cambelt change, inlet manifold removal etc etc. The Vectra engine bay was never, ever designed to take a five-cylinder engine...what were they thinking?

Now that is beginning to put me off. How often is the belt change anyway for the 2.4? Car is 32k miles or so but coming up to 5 years old.

 

[DoIDon'tI]

Supposedly 90K or, when you look a bit closer, 5 years. A lot of folks on the Alfaowner.com forum change them at four years / 60K because of an increased likelihood of water pump failures. I did mine at four years / 54K. The good thing is the parts are easily available.

I've put a thread on this forum in the past about how to do it yourself, don't listen to anyone with an Alfa who will tell you it's easily done by taking the suspension out - that doesn't work with the Croma bodyshell due to the extra height. It's not an issue if you can get a garage to change it without removing the engine (and gearbox). If...

 

[T14086]

shouldn't you be offsetting any future work against the low initial purchase price? All cars need belts/water pumps etc part & parcel of buying second hand.

 

[lanciaman]

shouldn't you be offsetting any future work against the low initial purchase price? All cars need belts/water pumps etc part & parcel of buying second hand.

Fair point but not all cars need the engine removed to do it.

 

[T14086]

cant have it always though....lets just say its £1000 for belt/water pump, for a big car like this and the price you will get it for it maybe still very much worth it.

 

[Doofer]

I'll say it - you're mad. Just chip yours if you want more oomph. There's no point worrying about the risks, as you're about to give it away for nothing anyway.

 

[lanciaman]

I'll say it - you're mad. Just chip yours if you want more oomph. There's no point worrying about the risks, as you're about to give it away for nothing anyway.

cheers Doofer! I like it said as it is.

Actually more interested in an auto box than the oomph particularly, but 200bhp and the torque has an appeal. Perhaps the sensible option would be a 1.9 auto. Or, perhaps the sensible option would be something Japanese!!!

 

[DoIDon'tI]

:yeahthat:

You get worse economy with a 2.4, the steering lock is limited ('cos the engine's too wide), the handling is worse because of the extra weight and it's not pleasant to work on. The extra performance is not really that useable due to the power delivery and gearbox characteristics.

However, if you need to tow with it or want a little more engine refinement (but not actually that much) then it's the right thing to do.

If it wasn't for towing I'd have a 1.9 150BHP - it sounds more like a tractor with a four-cylinder engine but I could live with that to get an extra 7-10 MPG

When it comes down to it, as T has already pointed out, you're getting a cheap car anyway. I suppose it's finding your particular point on the line somewhere between needing to change and wanting to change :devil:

:chin:...

 

[lanciaman]

:yeahthat:

You get worse economy with a 2.4, the steering lock is limited ('cos the engine's too wide), the handling is worse because of the extra weight and it's not pleasant to work on. The extra performance is not really that useable due to the power delivery and gearbox characteristics.

However, if you need to tow with it or want a little more engine refinement (but not actually that much) then it's the right thing to do.

If it wasn't for towing I'd have a 1.9 150BHP - it sounds more like a tractor with a four-cylinder engine but I could live with that to get an extra 7-10 MPG

When it comes down to it, as T has already pointed out, you're getting a cheap car anyway. I suppose it's finding your particular point on the line somewhere between needing to change and wanting to change :devil:

:chin:...

You hit the nail on the head. Want, not need!! I can see me sticking with the one I've got really. Nothing wrong with it (well there is as it needs a new battery and spring) but that aside. It has 115k miles on it now and part of the "justification" of this nonsense was the 2.4 has 32k miles on it. I average around 45 or so with the 1.9 manual. Would that drop under the 40s with the 2.4? I do very little town driving.

 

[cjlar]

Angel Tuning will give you 40bhp and 60lbs ft for £275. I did and it works very well indeed.

 

[Doofer]

A 5 year old car with 32k miles is not the same as a 1 year old car with the same mileage. It will still have a rusty exhaust, corroded brake discs, knackered battery and the rest.

Besides, you know your own car, and you've sorted out the niggles. Changing it will give you a whole new bag-full of unknowns. The previous owner of mine clearly didn't care about getting stuff sorted, so I had a wall of stuff to do after I bought it.

I'm sticking with mine until repair costs more than it's worth. Hopefully that should be at least 5 years away yet.

 

[DoIDon'tI]

Would that drop under the 40s with the 2.4? I do very little town driving.

Yes, particularly this time of year (lights on, wipers on, cold weather) and in the summer (aircon on) - I'm lucky if I can get an average of 38 mpg and I live in a flat part of the country, using my car to commute 33 miles each way with no town driving.

On the dozen or so days of the year when it's light enough to not need my lights and cool enough to not need the aircon, it will crack 40mpg but not much more.

This is not an economical engine, just look on www.alfaowner.com and do a search for 2.4JTD fuel consumption. The 1.9 is much more economical.

A 5 year old car with 32k miles is not the same as a 1 year old car with the same mileage. It will still have a rusty exhaust, corroded brake discs, knackered battery and the rest.

Besides, you know your own car, and you've sorted out the niggles. Changing it will give you a whole new bag-full of unknowns. The previous owner of mine clearly didn't care about getting stuff sorted, so I had a wall of stuff to do after I bought it.

Doofer, I salute you, couldn't have put it better myself. :worship:

 

[lanciaman]

Thanks chaps. Appreciate your input and you are right. I think I will knock the 2.4 idea on the head. Not to say if a nice 1.9 auto comes along I won't be tempted but sense prevails in this case - for now!

 

[Doofer]

I had two Seat Toledo V5's which are a five-cylinder (petrol) engine and I'm a huge fan of the lovely smooth feel and slightly strange engine note you get with the extra cylinder.

However, the Seat uses a VW V5 engine. It's transversely mounted, with two cylinders and one side and three on the other, kind of nestled between each other. It's a very compact way of fitting 5 cylinders under a bonnet.

Fiat chose the daft option of sticking the five cylinders in a line, transversely. It means it's absolutely jammed between the wheel arches.

The same issue put me off buying a Fiat Marea 5 cylinder years ago.

 

[Radlet6]

Hey if you think this is bad, a friend of mine bought a second hand Range Rover which promptly blew a head gasket. To get the cylinder head off a Range Rover you have to take the body off the chassis.

 

[Hellcat]

2.4 5pot diesel. :slayer:

If they can change the belts on the Marea 2.4 in situ, then there is much more space in the Croma!

 

[Doofer]

What the heck's that final photo? Is that what a cambelt change looks like with a Fiat 5 cylinder engine?

I like the concept - leave the engine in, but remove the rest of the car

The fact that they've had to restrict the steering angle on the 2.4 should tell you how tight it is. The Vectra is not a particularly wide car, and the wheelarches have to accomodate pretty wide wheels. It wouldn't surprise me if there was less space than on a Marea.

 

[Hellcat]

Previous owner removed the front to replace the aircon system. Good job he did of it too.

The Marea also had restricted turning, adding about 2m to the turning circle compared to the 1.9 model. Still I'd forgive it for that odd-pot orchestra.



Not a multijet or even a JTD but still 5 cylinders running on diesel between 2500 and 4000 give a sound you just can't compete with.