General retro cars FIRE tuning article

[Aust]

http://www.sfconline.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1107

found this whilst browsing aimlessley
dont know if this has been posted before
but thought it would be a good starting point for newbies (such as myself)
to learn the history of the engine the way it works
and simple ways to give your motor a bit of oomph :slayer:

 

[custard]

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento-faqs/95772-fire-tuning.html

 

[chaos]

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento-faqs/95772-fire-tuning.html

Learn to use the search

Was posted by Jonny a while ago, and caused quite a stir IIRC, so I won't post the link up.

 

[cheeqic_nto]

I've got that issue of retro cars, some interesting info.

 

[MiG]

85Bhp w/o is pretty nice for a 700Kg car... might have to have a trip down to wolf racing..

also, if i got this sort of work done, like a stage1/2 tune, would i be able 2 get a turbo put on the same time ? im guessing that would also take the power to over 100BHP?

im also thinking a 4WD conversion would come in handy

 

[custard]

and why would you want 4WD on a small car.weight and transmission losses would be huge.
you know a turbo isnt an air filter?you dont just 'put' them on

a turbo on its own can get over 100BHP

 

[Luke]

and why would you want 4WD on a small car.weight and transmission losses would be huge.
you know a turbo isnt an air filter?you dont just 'put' them on

a turbo on its own can get over 100BHP

And no you cant turbo the stage 1/2 tuning from them as their headwork includes skimming the head down to max - so the compression ratio is waay too much for a turbo application. So you'd have to get a decompression plate made up.

 

[MiG]

and why would you want 4WD on a small car.weight and transmission losses would be huge.
you know a turbo isnt an air filter?you dont just 'put' them on

a turbo on its own can get over 100BHP

The 4WD is not a bad idea at all..

OVER 100BHP, on a 700Kg car is absolutely sodding stupid, i can melt the tyres on my standard Cinq Sporting, you think double the power and thats fine ?

Who gives a **** about drivetrain loss when your not putting down the power from the lights, i'd rather loose 20% of 120BHP than loose about 60BHP cos the ****ty FWD is useless..

There are plently of small, 4WD cars that shift like you've never known.

Maybe the guys who made the Evo and Impreza have it all wrong using AWD.

 

[GhostWKD]

you've never driven a turbo cinq. and it shows

I drive my turbo cinq on 13's, and dont melt my tyres everywhere, its all about control

A Lancer/Impreza or Evo/WRX etc isnt comparable to a little hatchback

Edit: to prove my point, maybe trucks have got it all wrong using big ass turbo diesel engines

 

[custard]

wind your neck in.
if you cant get a car off the line with 54bhp then thats your driving
i could get a cinq with over 100bhp off the line with minimal wheel spin or light the tyres up as i saw fit.
the whole point of the cinq is light and nimble,add 4wd and you get what?
your comparing horses with 747's and making bananas

 

[MiG]

wind your neck in.
if you cant get a car off the line with 54bhp then thats your driving
i could get a cinq with over 100bhp off the line with minimal wheel spin or light the tyres up as i saw fit.
the whole point of the cinq is light and nimble,add 4wd and you get what?
your comparing horses with 747's and making bananas

OK... so put your foot to the floor and u get no wheel spin ?

exactly my point.

Your NOT putting down 100BHP off the mark...

 

[Luke]

OK... so put your foot to the floor and u get no wheel spin ?

exactly my point.

Your NOT putting down 100BHP off the mark...

LOL, but NO car puts there full power down at the beginning of a launch
And AWD isnt the answer to the problem either

 

[MiG]

LOL, but NO car puts there full power down at the beginning of a launch
And AWD isnt the answer to the problem either

yes, but you get my point, and AWD would help.

 

[custard]

have ever driven a powerful 4 wheel drive car?
you cant just dump the clutch either,it still requires the right amount of revs not to bog down or rip it to pieces
its more expensive to run
can take serious power eg a sunny GTI-R is about 150bhp after tranny losses are deducted
the work involved is huge to retro fit in a FWD car

bar mad power machines,electronic gubbins do the job fine on 2wd with less weight,losses and running costs

 

[MiG]

have ever driven a powerful 4 wheel drive car?
you cant just dump the clutch either,it still requires the right amount of revs not to bog down or rip it to pieces
its more expensive to run
can take serious power eg a sunny GTI-R is about 150bhp after tranny losses are deducted
the work involved is huge to retro fit in a FWD car

bar mad power machines,electronic gubbins do the job fine on 2wd with less weight,losses and running costs

i do know this, my dad has a Daihatsu Coure Avanzato TR-XX R4, which is pretty much the type of car you going on about..

it still spins... but this is the killer.. the car can run in 2WD or 4WD, meaning i have seen the differences.

and the extra levels of grip, round corners, from lights, its just immense. some of these Cinq's on ere would be perfect with 4WD i can imagine..

the understeer must be a bit crackers on a 150BHP Cinq.

 

[StoneNewt]

Fast launch with a turbo -
Handbrake on
Get the revs just above spool up
Slip the clutch till the car is strained against the handbrake
Rebalance the revs if required
Release handbrake, drop the clutch & 'punch' the throttle...

The art is to 'punch' the throttle in a smooth but quick manner to make the most of the traction & power. As someone demonstrated with a pair of Escort RS2000s (one FWD one AWD) the FWD was actually faster to launch off the line, with a rather nice flurry of controlled wheel spin where as the AWD didn't have enough clutch or engine it'd fry the clutch, jerk off almost stall the engine or lazily pull away from the line.

 

[balidey]

That exact engine used in the article is currently for sale.

 

[custard]

Fast launch with a turbo -
Handbrake on
Get the revs just above spool up
Slip the clutch till the car is strained against the handbrake
Rebalance the revs if required
Release handbrake, drop the clutch & 'punch' the throttle...

The art is to 'punch' the throttle in a smooth but quick manner to make the most of the traction & power. As someone demonstrated with a pair of Escort RS2000s (one FWD one AWD) the FWD was actually faster to launch off the line, with a rather nice flurry of controlled wheel spin where as the AWD didn't have enough clutch or engine it'd fry the clutch, jerk off almost stall the engine or lazily pull away from the line.

i remember that test.IIRC the wasnt much in it with the twisty test either

 

[StoneNewt]

IIRC A pair of RS2000s and 911 (993) Carreras with Alistair McRae in the drivers seat. I think the AWD RS2000 lost out on everything bar the wet skid pan test. The C4 was the better 911, as the AWD system was effectively RWD until the the rears started to spin up.

 

[nitrane.co.uk]

That exact engine used in the article is currently for sale.

I'm surprised this thread as got so far without mention of The Great Wolf Direct/Racing Controversy... mind you I've heard five different versions so far!

John