Punto (Mk2/2b) punto mk2 1.2 16v temp gauge just above 1/4 (new termostat and temp sensor)

[Shannon87]

Hi all...i just bought punto mk2 1.2 16v sporting from 2000.and have following problem. Temperature gauge was very low after 30min drive..under 1/4 mark. Then i replaced termostat (FACET) and i bleed the system through 2 bleed screws. Then temp started to go up above 1/4 mark maybe 2-3 mm and the radiator cooling fan kicked in and it stayed there.. Than i got genuine fiat temperature sensor and no change..all hoses are soft and hot, heating is very good and my temp gauge only goes 2-3 mm above 1/4 mark. It never goes to 1/2 mark??? any advice?? Is this normal??
Thanks...

 

[Ziggy122]

Hi all...i just bought punto mk2 1.2 16v sporting from 2000.and have following problem. Temperature gauge was very low after 30min drive..under 1/4 mark. Then i replaced termostat (FACET) and i bleed the system through 2 bleed screws. Then temp started to go up above 1/4 mark maybe 2-3 mm and the radiator cooling fan kicked in and it stayed there.. Than i got genuine fiat temperature sensor and no change..all hoses are soft and hot, heating is very good and my temp gauge only goes 2-3 mm above 1/4 mark. It never goes to 1/2 mark??? any advice?? Is this normal??
Thanks...

hmmmmm i'd wanna see the live data readout, to see what temperature the car thinks it is
Because the fan kicks in and then goes off, it's telling me that the car thinks everything is hokey kokey

and that your dashboard may be lying to you

Does the needle just sit below the minimum mark when its off, or does it sit hard against the bump stop at bottom?

Ziggy

 

[judderbar]

Because the fan kicks in and then goes off, it's telling me that the car thinks everything is hokey kokey

Ziggy

What about the lack of hardness in the hoses though? They should be very firm once the fan has kicked in?

If the fan kicks in early though it does not explain the inability of the gauge to reach the mid point with the thermostat 'closed' unless there is another fault.

 

[Shannon87]

I just checked the needle. Car is cold (didnt run it today) and needle sits on top of cold stop. Also just to add...i started car to check needle when running( its the same) and i heard water running for maybe 40-50 sec and than it stoped..Do i need to bleed the system again?? Can this be the cause for temp gauge not reaching 1/2 mark??
Thanks again...

 

[Ziggy122]

I just checked the needle. Car is cold (didnt run it today) and needle sits on top of cold stop. Also just to add...i started car to check needle when running( its the same) and i heard water running for maybe 40-50 sec and than it stoped..Do i need to bleed the system again?? Can this be the cause for temp gauge not reaching 1/2 mark??
Thanks again...

and Boom there's the answer

That water running sound - often called gurgaling, is air trapped inside the heater matrix, which means - lack of water flow

The engine circulates fine = no overheating, but little passes over the coolant sensor, as a result it reports low readings, or normal readings but sudden drops or uncontrolable drops in temperature

You need to rebleed the car, and the punto im affraid is 100% a pig todo, i dont know why it just is

If you've got the gurgle, it needs bleeding

Ziggy

 

[flisko]

and Boom there's the answer

That water running sound - often called gurgaling, is air trapped inside the heater matrix, which means - lack of water flow

The engine circulates fine = no overheating, but little passes over the coolant sensor, as a result it reports low readings, or normal readings but sudden drops or uncontrolable drops in temperature

You need to rebleed the car, and the punto im affraid is 100% a pig todo, i dont know why it just is

If you've got the gurgle, it needs bleeding

Ziggy

i got gurgle too but temp gauge sits at middle

 

[judderbar]

and Boom there's the answer

That water running sound - often called gurgaling, is air trapped inside the heater matrix, which means - lack of water flow

The engine circulates fine = no overheating, but little passes over the coolant sensor, as a result it reports low readings, or normal readings but sudden drops or uncontrolable drops in temperature

You need to rebleed the car, and the punto im affraid is 100% a pig todo, i dont know why it just is

If you've got the gurgle, it needs bleeding

Ziggy

As I pointed out several times already, the bleed screw is on an 'H' fitting - all 4 openings connect with the other three. If the heater matrix is totally blocked or turned off at the valve it will make no difference to the sensor unless the block is at the 'H' fitting or elsewhere along the external pipe back to the pump.

And as i pointed out several times already the punto is not easy to bleed because the max reservoir fluid level is about 4 to 6 inches below the rear bleed screw fluid level so it can only be bled with the car running? or by using a pressure method such as blowing on the reservoir opening or your own diy pressurisation method.

Either way it not absolutely necessary to bleed the punto. If there are no air/water leaks the air will eventually arrive at the reservoir in a few days worth of use. Long term gurgling just means there is an air/water leak somewhere.

If there is no air in a punto and you open the rear bleed screw with the reservoir cap off then air will flow into the pipes unless you overfill the reservoir.

 

[flisko]

As I pointed out several times already, the bleed screw is on an 'H' fitting - all 4 openings connect with the other three. If the heater matrix is totally blocked or turned off at the valve it will make no difference to the sensor unless the block is at the 'H' fitting or elsewhere along the external pipe back to the pump.

And as i pointed out several times already the punto is not easy to bleed because the max reservoir fluid level is about 4 to 6 inches below the rear bleed screw fluid level so it can only be bled with the car running? or by using a pressure method such as blowing on the reservoir opening or your own diy pressurisation method.

Either way it not absolutely necessary to bleed the punto. If there are no air/water leaks the air will eventually arrive at the reservoir in a few days worth of use. Long term gurgling just means there is an air/water leak somewhere.

If there is no air in a punto and you open the rear bleed screw with the reservoir cap off then air will flow into the pipes unless you overfill the reservoir.

but then you need to open cap to let it out

 

[judderbar]

but then you need to open cap to let it out

The water level in the reservoir goes lower as the air comes into the reservoir.

 

[Shannon87]

Hi all...im just after spendin 2h bleeding the punto. I think a got some air out but no change in temp gauge..sits rock solid 2-3mm above 1/4 mark and the engine does everything as it was on 1/2 mark...ventilator kicks in than stops and heating is super also and all hoses are hot..from and to matrix and upper and lower radiator hoses...im confused!!??
would it help to bleed matrix if i park on some steep hill to get more differance between bottle and matrix and than open screws for bleeding???
Thanks...

 

[oldhammer]

*What method have you used for bleeding the system?




*Ziggy couid be correct,the Gauge couid be telling you lie's
do you know anyone who couid plug it in for you and check..?
you will know for sure then,

 

[Shannon87]

Engine was cold, i opened cap on bottle and back bleed screw. Coolant to the neck of the boolte and i squeezed all hoses to get sam coolant out from back screw(i got only splash of coolant out). Than i starte engine and i continued to squeez the hoses..when it got hotter i opened front screw on top of radiator to get air out and fluid level in bottle droped..Then i closed front screw and increased rpm to around 3000( i could hear water running for 3 sec and than stops). I did that for few times until coolant level become stabile and than i closed bottle cap. I let it run more until fan kicked it and temp was reading 2-3mm above 1/4 mark.
I have local mechanic with diagnostic...will he be able to tell me more??
Thanks...

 

[oldhammer]

Best to use an empty 1Ltr coke bottle..with base cut off,
you have to keep coolant level high when bleeding.


raise front driver's side up abit with trolley jack, (seems to help)


They are a mare to bleed. id check for leaks and makesure jubilee clips are good and tight, slightest leak or bad clip has caught a few people out..


check stat housing is sealed properly too

 

[Shannon87]

Thanks for the advise..ill try that next and will post back...
Thanks all for the input...

 

[judderbar]

Shannon87

I just checked the resistances required to alter the temperature gauge on my mk2b 1.2 16V. The values I found for the lowest point of the scale, quarter half and full have no connection at all to the values shown in the Haynes manual.

I was wondering therefore if you are totally confidant you have the correct sensor for your engine and ECU combination?

Has the engine been changed?

I found these values

first position on gauge just up from bottom, 813 Ohm which is luke warm approximately 30C. 813 Ohm is 0.813K ohm. According to Haynes i should get this sensor resistance at 50C which is above the 48C of 'Hand hot' - ie very hot for your hands
quarter 483
half 200
full at just left of the 'H', 85 which is the highest position it would go down to 60 ohms.
A short put the guage at no deflection at all with the engine management light on. Sensor still works though when reconnected.

2008 Haynes mk2b has these values which i cannot reconcile to what i found

0C 5.97K ohms
at 10C 3.81K ohms
at 20C 2.5K ohms
at 40C 1.15K ohms
at 50C 0.8K ohms
at 60C 0.57K ohms
at 80C 0.30K ohms
at 90C 0.24K ohms
at 100C 0.17K ohms

 

[Shannon87]

judderbar
I just bought a car so i dont know any history of engine change.. as far of the sensor..i called fiat..gave them reg.number and they supplied sensor..it was green in color with 2 pins..old and new sensors were the same..and connects just under inlet manifold on r/h side..when i disconnect the plug, Fan kicks in and engine light comes on! I might check my values also..just to check..is your engine code 188A5000 also??
Thanks again...

 

[judderbar]

My engine number is the same according to the metal plate on the body of the car. It is very difficult to read the engine number on the 'bench' next to the water pump but the car has been in the family since new. The ECU is ME73H4F001

 

[jorrick]

I would like to step in, it looks like my mk2 1.2 16v also does not go above 1/4 of the gauge.

Im not sure if the fan kicks in and i have not heard any strange noises that indicates air in the system.

I have the car for 5 days now.

 

[jorrick]

I would like to step in, it looks like my mk2 1.2 16v also does not go above 1/4 of the gauge.

Im not sure if the fan kicks in and i have not heard any strange noises that indicates air in the system.

I have the car for 5 days now.

Seems to be gone now. Not sure why but it gets a little warmer now. just at 50%