Technical P60 Engine Into a Carbed Panda 4x4

[Freebo]

Hi All,

Been thinknig and looking into transplaning a Punto 60 Engine into a carbed Panda 4x4. Now I have been extensively searching the Panda section however most carb engine conversions either keep the carb or are going to MPI rather than SPI so am here to ask for your knowlege. I have also been searching the Cento section which has been coming up with a lot of good info however with most of the Cento's these were atleast SPI to begin with.

I am aware that the engine will just fit in onto the gearbox and with the old Panda engine mounts not an issue.

I am also aware I would need to get a fuel pump of some form as the Punto's is in the fuel tank and the carbed Panda is a mechanical one attached to the engine. Does anyone know what pressure pump is on the Punto's and offer any idea's of how to acheive this? Would it just be the case to find an aftermarket one somewhere or is there a way to fit the exiting Punto pump/sender into the Panda's fuel tank?

There has also been some talk mainly in the Cento section that the exhaust manifold doesnt meet the block correctly and would need some sort of extension plate, is this the case with the panda? I am also aware with the P75 engine Dragonman used he had to add an extra inch or so to the exhaust pipes for it to meet properly. Does anyone know what would need doing with the P60 block?

My other concern is the electrics, Dragonman has again provided us with the wiring breakdown of the loom for his P75 but is this identicle to the P60? This also leads me onto the immobiliser. Was there an immobiliser on the P60? If so would it be worth while transplanting the ignition barrel etc from the Punto and wireing this in?

These are all the questions I can think of at this moment in time. If anyone can think of any handy info or problems I may occour please post them down, I'd like to get my head round this transplant fully.

Cheers

Freebo

 

[kolza]

Is the 4x4 already there?

 

[Freebo]

Is the 4x4 already there?

The 4x4 is not mine, work has not yet begun. The Punto is in the stages of being bought.

 

[panda1408]

I'm not 100% but I have a feeling the Punto will use a 3 bar pump originally. Easiest way would be to use an inline electric pump, plumbed in at the tank end rather than in the engine bay. Go for a genuine Bosch pump though, don't bother with a cheap reproduction one as they cause more trouble than it's worth.

You will need to extend the downpipe/manifold, all 1242 blocks are taller than 999 or 1108. I've never done the conversion so don't know sizes etc, but if I were to do one I would get a spacer machined to go between the manifold and downpipe, a much neater way than welding in some extra pipe to the downpipe imo, it also has the added bonus of keeping the downpipe and manifold standard in case they ever need to be replaced.

Electrics wise I imagine a 60 is probably similar to a 75, but I'm just guessing there. The igntion barrel is all part of the steering lock mechanism so it would probably be quite involved to fit a Punto barrel to a Panda. It would give you a fully functioning immobiliser though and also an accessory position on the key which would be nice. Not sure if there were any Puntos without immoblisers I'm afraid.

 

[kolza]

I'm not 100% but I have a feeling the Punto will use a 3 bar pump originally. Easiest way would be to use an inline electric pump, plumbed in at the tank end rather than in the engine bay. Go for a genuine Bosch pump though, don't bother with a cheap reproduction one as they cause more trouble than it's worth.

Not sure if there were any Puntos without immoblisers I'm afraid.

Realy early puntos had no Immo.

Go for high quality in-line pump mounted as close as possible to the tank, (max 12 inches). To go as Fredy suggested you would need to change the fuel tank to SPI one. There is different hole shape for fuel sender/pump between carbed/injected. So spi tank and bosh/oe pump or carbed tank with hi-quality in-line pump ( i would suggest to use presure regulator as well).

 

[panda1408]

I meant the same as you Jacob, although if the tank needed replacing anyway then sourcing an SPI tank from Europe would make a neat factory spec install.

 

[Dragon Man]

ok.. as far as it goes everything will be identical to what i did. the only difference will be that i had a fuel rail and you have a throttle body with injector. the punto 60 will work on a 2 bar fuel pump but if you have one that is over that it will be fine as the throttle body has a built in regulator. try to find one that is not a high flow rate as the pandas fuel lines will cause a back pressure on the throttle body because they are narrow.

it will be identical to how i set mine up. all you need as far as fuel goes is the 2 original pipes, a filter, the pump then a way to connect the outlet from the throttle body back to the return to the fuel tank. its just jubilee clips and different thickness pipes easy to do.

electronics will be identical to mine.

a bit that may be a little hard will be the coolant. make sure you get as much of the original punto coolant pipes as you can. i used 4x jubilee clips and plastic pond pipe connectors. DO NOT CUT any of the original 4x4 coolant hoses! you do not need to... the only bits of hose you should need extra are the original punto ones that come out of the back of the engine for the heater matrix. i am not sure if the throttle body is heated on the p60 but on the p75 it is.

keep the punto alternator. its got a bit more power over the panda one. the electronic eye/ring connectors will need to be changed to slightly bigger ones as the original panda ones are a bit smaller and wont fit the punto alternator.

i am not sure if the punto 60 uses a single down pipe or a twin down pipe. if it uses a single down pipe just swap the exhaust manifold over from the original 4x4 engine and put it on the punto 60 engine. the bolts will all line up.

you will have to have the original panda 4x4 exhaust manifold lengthened. this is because the 1242cc and 1368cc engines sit 2cm taller than the 769cc, 999cc, and 1108cc engines.
you also need to add a place for a lambda sensor. i position mine quite a way back at the end of the down pipe, where the 2 pipes meet (so it can read O2 content from all cylinders)

if you want, i can convert the down pipe to work with the new engine. ill do all the welding and add the lambda hole too. when under the car it may require a little bit of bending into shape to compensate for the 2cm change but it can be done.
i am currently using a converted +2cm down pipe on Talon with the original 999cc engine and sump guard fitted. after a bit of bending it all fit into shape well.

if you want to convert it yourself, all you need is some pipe the same thickness as the original 4x4 downpipe (2x 2cm lengths) and a old lambda sensor threaded hole from a scrap downpipe from a scrap yard, you would have to angle grind it out and clean it up before you drill out a hole and weld it in.

gearbox will mount up fine just make sure that when you are mounting them, but while it is all apart you may as well change the clutch.. use the punto 1.2 clutch as its a bit better than the panda 4x4's.

if you require pictures of anything please do let me know.

 

[VmanC]

Bucket has the Punto 60 engine.

I used the Punto downpipe, Panda clx wiring loom, new spi tank from Germany and a new 'in tank' pump/sender for that tank from Italy.
The immobiliser is not in the steering lock its a plastic loop that fits around the lock, you can just take it off, tape the key to it and you're done. It connects to a small control box and then into the loom so you will need to wire this in.

 

[kolza]

Freebo, I had a look trough all 4 down pipes which i currently have, one of them looks like it was extended already by welding in section. PM me if interested.