General One for the regulars......8v and 16v

[lanciaman]

Alright, after following the post re buying a croma, what's the downer on the 8v engine then!!!

Mine is the 8v Eleganza and it is perfectly powerful enough for everyday driving. I haven't dirven the 16v but surely the additional power is higher up the (limited) rev range? And if you want to rev, what have you got a diesel for? Torque is what it is about (to me) and there isn't that much difference between 8v and 16v.

I rarely go above 3k revs in mine - can't be bothered. Done the speedy bit in life with various fastish cars.

So, I defend the 8v. Pistols at dawn anybody?

 

[bobbyblue]

I agree with you, I have an 8v Dynamic, it is perfectly adequate for day to day driving, great on the motorway and good on fuel, judging by the posts referring to dodgy drive shafts I think 120 bhp is well enough. I have a motorbike for fun, the Croma is for transport and it does a good job of that.

 

[lanciaman]

I agree with you, I have an 8v Dynamic, it is perfectly adequate for day to day driving, great on the motorway and good on fuel, judging by the posts referring to dodgy drive shafts I think 120 bhp is well enough. I have a motorbike for fun, the Croma is for transport and it does a good job of that.

I would like to say I have a Mercedes SL500 for fun, but fun is the last thing on the agenda with that heap.....

However, agree with you totally. 120 is perfect, and economy is key these days.

I am 42 and old.

 

[Doofer]

Ey ey calm down.

I've got a lovely 16v. I believe (only from memory, don't quote me) that the 16v is not only quicker but is also more economical than the 8v. So if you're looking to buy one then the 16v is the one to have, as there's little difference in price between the two.

Having said that, if an 8v is going for a good price, don't ignore it.

To me, it sounds a lot like the single-core PC processors that are actually a dual core that has had one of them melted by a laser beam. Manufacturers go to great lengths to make a lower-performance model so they can sell the better one for a higher price. I'd bet the 8v cost little less than the 16v one, but it filled a gap in the market (big car, diesel engine, low price, not bothered about performance).

 

[grimep]

Speaking as a prospective buyer, on paper they look exactly the same, except a 16V goes to 60 in under 10 secs, the 8v nearer 12. I guess that would sway me a bit if I had to choose between the two. Perhaps the equal mpg figures that get quoted are a fiction...?

 

[Doofer]

Official MPG figures are not realistic, but they are at least consistent. They are calculated doing a set course on rollers in a lab (so no air resistance, hills or bumps). Then they fiddle it - they multiply it up to simulate the time spent coasting! How could you gain any potential coasting when the engine has not had to push the car up any hills?

Despite being a con, they are all fiddled in an identical industry-standard way, so they should provide an accurate comparison between two or more cars.

 

[lanciaman]

Theoretically the 8v should be more reliable in the longer term - less power, less parts, less wear......don't suppose the theory works in realty all the same. Still the same crap springs on them!

MPG - we live north of the middle of no where, and since I've had it it has not seen a motorway. Never had it under 42mpg and occasionally a round trip we do on an A road of 120 miles it will hit 50mpg. When not bothering seems to sit around 44 ish. But it is driven pretty gently. My father in law came up not so long ago and borrowed it and managed to get the average on the trip down from 44 or so to 34 within 40 miles. The fact he decided 5th and 6th gear were a new fangled idea and didn't bother with them didn't help....

 

[Doofer]

Your report on the MPG for the 8v sounds identical to my 16v. The economy is very responsive to driving style - you can add 50% to the range with a light foot.

Drive like a nutter = 30mpg
Drive like a vicar = 45-50mpg

 

[bobbyblue]

This week I have been working in Coventry, a short trip from Birmingham. I have stuck to the speed limits and have achieved 53.1 average mpg, this is on urban and A class trunk roads. The easiest way I have found to knock your mpg down considerably is harsh acceleration, lets face it, in today's traffic if that's how you drive all you do is beat the other bloke to the next traffic lights or tailback. On my normal daily commute which is spent on the M40 for 30 miles at 70 - 80 mph (just keeping up with the traffic flow) and 4 occupants, I avearge just shy of 50mpg.

 

[s130]

One service/mechanical advantage the 16V has over the 8V is that the 8V does not have hydraulic tappets so they have to be checked and adjusted if required every 60km.

Unless you have the tooling this is a garage job, and in most cases will be a Fiat dealer or Fiat/Ducato specialist.

Least there are only 8 to do

 

[Radlet6]

Oooooo, I think we have touched a nerve here.

OK, not only does the 16v have more bhp (that's oomph) it also has more torque (grunt) which makes for fewer gear changes and more relaxed driving (better for towing too if you're that way inclined).

The power does not come in higher up in the rev range - it is more powerful all the way through the rev range.

You happy with your 8v then fine. It's just not for me when the alternative is not really that much more expensive. In terms of cost per pony the 16v is a better buy.

 

[Radlet6]

Theoretically the 8v should be more reliable in the longer term - less power, less parts, less wear......don't suppose the theory works in realty all the same. Still the same crap springs on them!

It doesn't. An underpowered car can stress the engine more. Back in the 70's the 1100cc Escort was inclined to wear out long before the 130cc; the 1300cc Cortina would wear out before the 1600cc etc.

 

[Doofer]

So, for the benefit of potential buyers, how much cheaper does an 8v need to be compared to a 16v of identical spec?

For a £400 difference I would have been tempted. But I doubt you'd get an 8v going that much cheaper.

I saw very little difference between the prices of 8v and 16v when I was looking. Also only a small difference between the three trim levels. That's why I ended up with a 16v Prestigio, but I did have to go to the other end of the country for it.

 

[Radlet6]

With 2 days to go the one on e-bay has finally received a bid. Given you could £500 to have the steering pump fixed I would be tempted if bidding didn't go above £2,500.

However, I'm not in the market so.

 

[lanciaman]

It doesn't. An underpowered car can stress the engine more. Back in the 70's the 1100cc Escort was inclined to wear out long before the 130cc; the 1300cc Cortina would wear out before the 1600cc etc.

Perhaps, but on that theory then a Dodge Viper will last for enternity!!!

 

[s130]

Well this 150BHP 16V Croma is my first ever diesel. I've only ever once driven an 8V turbo diesel and that was a Stilo in a test drive against a 2.4l Abarth Stilo.

From memory the 8V diesel went very well.

Can I get picky here AGAINST my 16V Croma.

The 16V hydraulic tappet unit is *new*. A first in the motor industry and a first for Fiat. The 8V Fiat diesel is well tried and proved over millions of miles and quit a few years.

This gives the 8V unit a pretty good base.

A question I have (which I could possibly answer with my eLearn) does the 8V unit use "swirl valves" on the inlet manifold? Thise valves which definitely exists on the 16V unit have been known to fail, stick and cause issues.

SMILE! On BMWs the swirl valves fail by dropping nuts into the engine and causing masses of damage. Have never heard this happening with the Fiat design.

finally.....8V, 16V, 120 bhp, 150bhp, 1100cc, 1300cc, 1500cc, 1600cc, 1800cc, 2000cc, 2400cc etc. Fiat have never ever really produced a *rap engine. Sadly the engines have been coupled to less impressive components over the years. Electrics, auto boxes and GM parts!

What we now need to do is uncouple the *crap from the genuine Fiat good bits and get back to what Fiat did good before they got in bed with 'others'.

 

[Doofer]

Never? A bold statement.

My dad's M-reg 1970s Fiat 124 Special was total and utter crap, every panel, nut, bolt and the engine. I don't know when they got their act together, but recent engines do seem much better.

 

[s130]

Hmmmm....are you sure you are saying the basic 124 engine was crap. That surprises me. However I will admit that there must be at least one duff unit in the bunch.

A little research shows the 124 Special was an overhead valve engine as opposed to the later overhead cam engine. This could account for 'issues'. Fiat overhead cam engines have (thanks to Lampredi) been always at the top of the engine tree in performance and reliability. Still are when we are talking engine block and head. Other bolt on stuff (e.g EGR valves, swirl valves etc. do seem to lower the reliability stakes.

 

[dave]

these is one in classifieds for £1k needs gearbox fix, it could work out lots cheaper than the one needing steering fixed

 

[lanciaman]

I may be selling mine soon, or attempting to. It has 117k miles now but is in very good order. If I get £2k for it the party poppers will be out frankly.