Technical Oil life not reset on Euro6d

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Technical Oil life not reset on Euro6d

xavgdt

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Hi everyone,

I have a Euro6d 2.3mj 120 Ducato.
I have realized only now that the oil life was not reset at the last oil change.
I've driven 15'000km since the oil change but the ECU thinks It's been on the same oil for 40'000km.
The oil degradation counter says my oil life left is now 5%. Is this an actual reading from a sensor in the oil? Or just an estimation based on driving since the last oil change reset?

I have alfaobd. Should I just reset the counter by signaling I have changed the oil now, even if it's already been used for a while? Can that cause issues?
Or should I do nothing and wait?

Thanks!
 
Model
2.3mj 120 Euro6d
Year
2019
If you have only just changed the oil then reset the counter
There is no oil quality sensor

15,000 km between oil changes is sensible.
 
If you have only just changed the oil then reset the counter
There is no oil quality sensor

15,000 km between oil changes is sensible.
Well I haven't just changed the oil and would like to use this for 25'000km, it's 100% synthetic 0w30.
The question is: is there any adverse effect if I reset the counter now, without changing the oil?
 
You can reset the counter(as long as oil not passed its service life in months) but remember to change the oil.
If you wish to keep the engine running well for long time /kilometers think about changing oil sooner than every 25,000 km, your decision.
Do not allow oil to be in engine for more than 24 months.
 
Whether to change the oil earlier than the manufacturers recommendation has been debated to death.
Seems to be just a matter of opinion, with no clear right or wrong answer?
I used to change it earlier, then changed my mind.
Because a neighbour - retired Technical College Lecturer whose brother owned a garage, had a little Citroen petrol car for 13 years and 10,000 milers, never changed the oil or filter, and it still ran sweet as a nut and looked immaculate. I am not recommending that and still change my oil regularly - but at the manufacturers recommendations.
 
The oil condition counter is a software algorithm in the engine control unit. It makes theoretical calculations based on operating conditions and measurements from various sensors including number and type of regenerations, ambient temperature, number of cold starts etc. etc. It cannot determine the actual condition of the oil, it is a guesstimate.

But if you let it run until it determines that (in its opinion) the oil; is degraded beyond its calculated cut off point, it will put the van in limp mode and shorty after progressively reduce its power and performance even further.

So resetting it prevents that from happening. It has no more effect on the physical condition of the vehicle than if you cancel a service required warning and reset it for a further 12 months, without having a physical service. The van is in exactly the same condition as it was beforehand, but the reminder has been cancelled and won't reappear until subsequent accumulated mileage or time dictates otherwise.

So you can reset the counter any time you like to prevent an eventual limp mode due to the oil counter, but don't forget to change the oil at the next required time or mileage to prevent risk of possible wear or damage to the engine.

I'm very much in the annual oil change camp, particularly if your van is a motorhome which probably travels relatively low mileages each year compared to a commercial vehicle, and spends a lot of time sitting around, either on sites or at home, rather than travelling sufficient distance to fully heat up the engine and evaporate or burn off contaminants in the oil every day. Some of those contaminants are the normal by-products of combustion that occur in any vehicle with an ICE engine, many of which are corrosive and/or acidic. But modern diesels can also suffer dilution of the oil by diesel, due to the regeneration process which, in the later Ducatos, can involve injecting diesel into the engine outside of the normal combustion cycle, to cause controlled overheating and raise the temperature of the exhaust gases sufficiently to burn soot deposits out of the particle filter. In those circumstances fuel can find its way into the sump diluting the oil.

I did read a document some time ago, which was a laboratory test of various long life oils intended for modern vehicles with emission reduction systems. It found that the protection offered by such relatively expensive oils was often comparable to, or less than that afforded by a cheaper traditional oil, after 24 months. But using the cheaper oil in the same vehicles would be even worse.

So I'm of the opinion that long life oils with extended mileage or time intervals and therefore less frequent service requirements are aimed by manufacturers mainly at attracting fleet buyers, who factor servicing and repair costs into their decisions when looking to purchase such vehicles. By lowering overall costs, the vehicle manufacturer hopes to attract sales to fleet buyers because their vehicle will hopefully cost less overall to run that a competitors' van.

With a 2 or 3 year warranty, and most fleet buyers disposing of the vehicles after 3 years or so, reliability and warranty claims are probably still within expected levels for the original purchaser. But as to the life of the vehicle subsequently, who knows, other than the certainty that there will be no comeback against the manufacturer at that age if any problems materialise.

I've also seen an engine workshop manual for the Iveco multijet engines jointly fitted to the Ducato and Iveco Daily etc. in which Iveco state that any vehicle travelling less than 7,500 miles a year should have annual oil changes rather than the headline 24 month service, and that any engine not started and driven for 3 months or more should have an oil change before being started. Fiat are rather less informative, only alluding to 12 month oil changes for vehicles driven mainly in towns, whereas the manufacturer of my car also stipulates the same reduced change frequency for use in adverse conditions including cold climates, deserts, mountainous areas, predominantly short journeys, towing a trailer etc.

So that's what I have based my annual oil change decision on, and at less than £60 for Fuchs oil as used by my local Iveco and Fiat Pro dealer when my van was in warranty, plus a decent filter (MANN) and an hour or so of my time, its hardly expensive.

I would guess that a 13 year old Citroen petrol car didn't have a modern engine with relatively tighter tolerances, and certainly didn't have a diesel particle filter regeneration system. Even so, I've seen the difference between the inside of engines of all types subject to regular oil changes using good quality oils, which often appear as clean as a whistle internally, and others ;)

I'm also far less fussy about the type of oil I put in my wife's 15 year old Hyundai than the van or my nearly new Volvo, but then the Hyundai's engine is based on much older technology and a pretty basic design! I still change the oil and filter annually though, even though the intervening mileage is usually less than 3000 miles.
 
The oil condition counter is a software algorithm in the engine control unit. It makes theoretical calculations based on operating conditions and measurements from various sensors including number and type of regenerations, ambient temperature, number of cold starts etc. etc. It cannot determine the actual condition of the oil, it is a guesstimate.

But if you let it run until it determines that (in its opinion) the oil; is degraded beyond its calculated cut off point, it will put the van in limp mode and shorty after progressively reduce its power and performance even further.

So resetting it prevents that from happening. It has no more effect on the physical condition of the vehicle than if you cancel a service required warning and reset it for a further 12 months, without having a physical service. The van is in exactly the same condition as it was beforehand, but the reminder has been cancelled and won't reappear until subsequent accumulated mileage or time dictates otherwise.

So you can reset the counter any time you like to prevent an eventual limp mode due to the oil counter, but don't forget to change the oil at the next required time or mileage to prevent risk of possible wear or damage to the engine.

I'm very much in the annual oil change camp, particularly if your van is a motorhome which probably travels relatively low mileages each year compared to a commercial vehicle, and spends a lot of time sitting around, either on sites or at home, rather than travelling sufficient distance to fully heat up the engine and evaporate or burn off contaminants in the oil every day. Some of those contaminants are the normal by-products of combustion that occur in any vehicle with an ICE engine, many of which are corrosive and/or acidic. But modern diesels can also suffer dilution of the oil by diesel, due to the regeneration process which, in the later Ducatos, can involve injecting diesel into the engine outside of the normal combustion cycle, to cause controlled overheating and raise the temperature of the exhaust gases sufficiently to burn soot deposits out of the particle filter. In those circumstances fuel can find its way into the sump diluting the oil.

I did read a document some time ago, which was a laboratory test of various long life oils intended for modern vehicles with emission reduction systems. It found that the protection offered by such relatively expensive oils was often comparable to, or less than that afforded by a cheaper traditional oil, after 24 months. But using the cheaper oil in the same vehicles would be even worse.

So I'm of the opinion that long life oils with extended mileage or time intervals and therefore less frequent service requirements are aimed by manufacturers mainly at attracting fleet buyers, who factor servicing and repair costs into their decisions when looking to purchase such vehicles. By lowering overall costs, the vehicle manufacturer hopes to attract sales to fleet buyers because their vehicle will hopefully cost less overall to run that a competitors' van.

With a 2 or 3 year warranty, and most fleet buyers disposing of the vehicles after 3 years or so, reliability and warranty claims are probably still within expected levels for the original purchaser. But as to the life of the vehicle subsequently, who knows, other than the certainty that there will be no comeback against the manufacturer at that age if any problems materialise.

I've also seen an engine workshop manual for the Iveco multijet engines jointly fitted to the Ducato and Iveco Daily etc. in which Iveco state that any vehicle travelling less than 7,500 miles a year should have annual oil changes rather than the headline 24 month service, and that any engine not started and driven for 3 months or more should have an oil change before being started. Fiat are rather less informative, only alluding to 12 month oil changes for vehicles driven mainly in towns, whereas the manufacturer of my car also stipulates the same reduced change frequency for use in adverse conditions including cold climates, deserts, mountainous areas, predominantly short journeys, towing a trailer etc.

So that's what I have based my annual oil change decision on, and at less than £60 for Fuchs oil as used by my local Iveco and Fiat Pro dealer when my van was in warranty, plus a decent filter (MANN) and an hour or so of my time, its hardly expensive.

I would guess that a 13 year old Citroen petrol car didn't have a modern engine with relatively tighter tolerances, and certainly didn't have a diesel particle filter regeneration system. Even so, I've seen the difference between the inside of engines of all types subject to regular oil changes using good quality oils, which often appear as clean as a whistle internally, and others ;)

I'm also far less fussy about the type of oil I put in my wife's 15 year old Hyundai than the van or my nearly new Volvo, but then the Hyundai's engine is based on much older technology and a pretty basic design! I still change the oil and filter annually though, even though the intervening mileage is usually less than 3000 miles.
Thanks for the insightful reply! Much appreciated.
My Ducato is indeed a camper, but we're on a year-long world trip (currently writing from Kazakhstan) and we drove 15'000km in the last 4 months. So I think the usage is very similar to what manufacturers imagine for commercial users, hence my idea to replace the oil at 25'000km (which would be approximately 6 months). Essentially I'm halving fiat's recommendation to replace every 48'000km to account for the lower quality of asian fuel and demanding driving.
 
Thanks for the insightful reply! Much appreciated.
My Ducato is indeed a camper, but we're on a year-long world trip (currently writing from Kazakhstan) and we drove 15'000km in the last 4 months. So I think the usage is very similar to what manufacturers imagine for commercial users, hence my idea to replace the oil at 25'000km (which would be approximately 6 months). Essentially I'm halving fiat's recommendation to replace every 48'000km to account for the lower quality of asian fuel and demanding driving.
Please be aware there are two settings that need to be reset. One is the service interval counter - time/distance. That is just a simple counter to warn the owner when the time/distance count setting has been met - due for service. The more important one is the one in the ECU that is the oil degradation calculator (the one you are worried about) and can only be reset with a decent scan tool or MES. This is the one that will put the vehicle in limp mode if not reset.
 
I would rather measure the oil quality by the specifications on the can (eg 0w30 C2 recommended for the X2/90) than measure the quality by the price label.
Reminds me of Stella marketing its Lager in the UK as 'reassuringly expensive' - when it was the same price as the other lagers across the channel :ROFLMAO:
Yorkshire Trading were selling Wilko 'Oils Well' brand 0w 30 C2 at £5.99 for 2 litres so I am well stocked up with that
Comma re stickered their oil for Wilko, and Comma is owned by Esso.
I dread to think how much the same oil in an Esso bottle would cost on the motorway :eek:
 
I would rather measure the oil quality by the specifications on the can (eg 0w30 C2 recommended for the X2/90) than measure the quality by the price label.
Reminds me of Stella marketing its Lager in the UK as 'reassuringly expensive' - when it was the same price as the other lagers across the channel :ROFLMAO:
Yorkshire Trading were selling Wilko 'Oils Well' brand 0w 30 C2 at £5.99 for 2 litres so I am well stocked up with that
Comma re stickered their oil for Wilko, and Comma is owned by Esso.
I dread to think how much the same oil in an Esso bottle would cost on the motorway :eek:
You misunderstand me. I'm not referring to more expensive oils necessarily being of better quality because they are more expensive. But a 0W30 oil meeting or exceeding the required Fiat specification 955535-DS1 is a more likely to be a better quality (for the intended engine) than a generic 0W30 oil from an unknown or budget brand with no compatible recommendations or certifications.

You can buy 5 litres of Fuchs GT1 for around £37, or you can spend up to £90 or more for a similar oil with the same compatibility from some other quality manufacturers. I've used Fuchs for years, and as I said, it was notable that my nearest Fiat Pro and Iveco dealer were also using it, although happy to sell the exorbitantly priced Selenia oil that Fiat "recommend" due to contractual tie-ins if a customer demands it.

It doesn't seem that Wilko's 0W30 claims any compatibility with either Fiat or Iveco specifications. That's not to say that it is necessarily a poor choice, it may or may not be, but if you seek out an oil matching the vehicle manufacturer's specification you at least have some confirmation of the applicability of the product.

So I regard Fuchs GT1 as a good priced compatible oil which saves me paying over the odds for many other brands claiming or meeting the required specification, without penny pinching to the point of using what is otherwise an unknown quantity.
 
Fuchs GT1 oil seem to come in 2 options 0W-20 or 5W-30 ?
Which do you recommend for a 2008 Ducato 3.0l 160bhp?
 
Fuchs GT1 oil seem to come in 2 options 0W-20 or 5W-30 ?
Which do you recommend for a 2008 Ducato 3.0l 160bhp?
Was does your vehicle handbook recommend? It won't be 0W30 so possibly 5W30, but check. The other important part is the Fiat specification.

As with 0W30 oil above, which is for Euro 6 engines, Fiat say it must meet their specification 955535-DS1.

Armed with similar information from your handbook, you can do worse than go to Opie Oils website. Use their Oil by Manufacturer Specification search to select Fiat and the required Fiat Specification code. You will then see a selection of oils that they stock which are compatible.

You don't have to buy from them, you can search t'internet to see if you can get your chosen oil cheaper elsewhere, but it's a good place to get a reasonable list of the correct spec oils.
 
I have successfully reset the oil to change counter on my euro 6b 2017 2.3 150 using a procedure on YouTube. It involves switching ignition on and pressing accelerator down and whilst keeping it down pumping brake 7 times and then a wait period etc.
It has worked every time for me but I have never had the software updated. I have read that updates may prevent the procedure working but no personal experience. Perhaps it will not work on a euro 6d in any event.
 
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I have successfully reset the oil to change counter on my euro 6b 2017 2.3 150 using a procedure on YouTube. It involves switching ignition on and pressing accelerator down and whilst keeping it down pumping brake 7 times and then a wait period etc.
It has worked every time for me but I have never had the software updated. I have read that updates may prevent the procedure working but no personal experience. Perhaps it will not work on a euro 6d in any event.
That will reset the service counter, but not the oil degradation monitor. To reset that you need either MES or a descent scan tool.
 
That will reset the service counter, but not the oil degradation monitor. To reset that you need either MES or a descent scan tool.
Not on mine. It resets the oil counter. I have a diagnostic tool and the oil reset actually resets the service interval so I have always used the method l described to reset the oil counter. I have had the vehicle since new in 2017 and that's the way it works.
 
I reset the oil counter on my 2021 X2/90 with the procedure on you tube but you have to follow it exactly. So I find it better to print it off and have it at the side of me rather than follow a video. Because its a complicated and bizarre procedure and its meant to be - so you don't do it accidentally.

To Extinguish Ducato X2/90 Change Oil Warning
  • Fill Adblu
  • Turn Ignition On
  • Hold Throttle Pedal To Floor
  • Pump Brake Pedal 7 Times
  • Keep Holding Throttle Pedal To Floor for 60 Seconds
  • Release Throttle Pedal
  • Turn Ignition Off
  • Wait 60 Seconds
Start Engine – Change Oil Warning may come on but will go out soon
 
You misunderstand me. I'm not referring to more expensive oils necessarily being of better quality because they are more expensive. But a 0W30 oil meeting or exceeding the required Fiat specification 955535-DS1 is a more likely to be a better quality (for the intended engine) than a generic 0W30 oil from an unknown or budget brand with no compatible recommendations or certifications.

You can buy 5 litres of Fuchs GT1 for around £37, or you can spend up to £90 or more for a similar oil with the same compatibility from some other quality manufacturers. I've used Fuchs for years, and as I said, it was notable that my nearest Fiat Pro and Iveco dealer were also using it, although happy to sell the exorbitantly priced Selenia oil that Fiat "recommend" due to contractual tie-ins if a customer demands it.

It doesn't seem that Wilko's 0W30 claims any compatibility with either Fiat or Iveco specifications. That's not to say that it is necessarily a poor choice, it may or may not be, but if you seek out an oil matching the vehicle manufacturer's specification you at least have some confirmation of the applicability of the product.

So I regard Fuchs GT1 as a good priced compatible oil which saves me paying over the odds for many other brands claiming or meeting the required specification, without penny pinching to the point of using what is otherwise an unknown quantity.
Yes but my understanding is that Comma/Wilko would have to pay Fiat to approve it, so Fiat are going to recommend that for the same reason they recommend Selinia? This would add to the cost of the oil
Some get round it like this - I also have some Granville 0W/30 C2 (from Wilko closing down sale) which says on the bottle 'recommended by Granville for a range of manufacturer's specifications including the Fiat 9:55535-DS1/GS1
But I suppose even if Fiat had tested it you can't be certain the oil in your bottle is as good as the sample presented to Fiat - who is testing them all?
Trading Standards: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ng-standards-uk-consumer-goods-britain-europe ?
Ultimately we have to take some things on trust.
 
Yes but my understanding is that Comma/Wilko would have to pay Fiat to approve it, so Fiat are going to recommend that for the same reason they recommend Selinia? This would add to the cost of the oil
Some get round it like this - I also have some Granville 0W/30 C2 (from Wilko closing down sale) which says on the bottle 'recommended by Granville for a range of manufacturer's specifications including the Fiat 9:55535-DS1/GS1
But I suppose even if Fiat had tested it you can't be certain the oil in your bottle is as good as the sample presented to Fiat - who is testing them all?
Trading Standards: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ng-standards-uk-consumer-goods-britain-europe ?
Ultimately we have to take some things on trust.
To be able to quote vehicle manufacturer approval, the oil has to be submitted for testing at cost to the oil manufacturer. It doesn't mean that Fiat are going to recommend that oil following approval though. They have a long standing commercial and contractual relationship with Petronas, who acquired Selenia lubrication from Fiat ownership, hence the close tie-in and recommendations in vehicle handbooks.

Similarly Volvo have a contractual tie-in with Castrol for their VEA engines and recommend Castrol oil, but it doesn't stop anyone using one of the now quite numerous other oils that have been approved by Volvo.

The thing is, there are so many different oils to choose from at varying prices, which have been approved by Fiat to their required specification, why would you choose a different oil that hasn't been approved and is an unknown quantity, just to save a few pounds? Yes, Selenia is expensive and I wouldn't even consider it, but neither am I going to buy an excessively cheap oil to save a few pounds here and there.

I suppose there has to be an element of trust, but thanks to the strange American vehicle owners' habit of sending off their drained engine oil every 6,000 miles or so for independent testing, it's possible with a bit of internet searching to search out decent oils.

It's the same with replacement parts. I won't pay the exorbitant prices for FCA boxed oil and air filters, but I buy MANN filters for all my vehicles, and the MANN air filter is actually an improvement on the Fiat supplied part, with an internal steel mesh shield that prevents the not unheard of problem of mice entering the filter box, chewing their way through the filter element and entering or being sucked into the induction system.

Fiat boxed timing belt kits? Expensive from Fiat, although it's possible to find them somewhat cheaper elsewhere. But all the parts are made by Dayco, and you can buy the exact same parts in Dayco boxes much cheaper from a reputable source. I regard that as important, as the car spares market is now awash with forged pattern parts from the Far East and elsewhere. I don't know if it's still the same, but a few years ago Gates were the most counterfeited timing belt kits on the market.

So I never buy the most expensive options. But neither do I buy the cheapest. I look to the middle ground, buy from reputable sources and do my own research.
 
I suppose there has to be an element of trust, but thanks to the strange American vehicle owners' habit of sending off their drained engine oil every 6,000 miles or so for independent testing, it's possible with a bit of internet searching to search out decent oils.
But is the oil sold in America the same as that sold here?
I think the article suggests its easier to offload a duff batch of oil or counterfeit timing belt in the UK.
 
To be able to quote vehicle manufacturer approval, the oil has to be submitted for testing at cost to the oil manufacturer. It doesn't mean that Fiat are going to recommend that oil following approval though. They have a long standing commercial and contractual relationship with Petronas, who acquired Selenia lubrication from Fiat ownership, hence the close tie-in and recommendations in vehicle handbooks.

Similarly Volvo have a contractual tie-in with Castrol for their VEA engines and recommend Castrol oil, but it doesn't stop anyone using one of the now quite numerous other oils that have been approved by Volvo.

The thing is, there are so many different oils to choose from at varying prices, which have been approved by Fiat to their required specification, why would you choose a different oil that hasn't been approved and is an unknown quantity, just to save a few pounds? Yes, Selenia is expensive and I wouldn't even consider it, but neither am I going to buy an excessively cheap oil to save a few pounds here and there.

I suppose there has to be an element of trust, but thanks to the strange American vehicle owners' habit of sending off their drained engine oil every 6,000 miles or so for independent testing, it's possible with a bit of internet searching to search out decent oils.

It's the same with replacement parts. I won't pay the exorbitant prices for FCA boxed oil and air filters, but I buy MANN filters for all my vehicles, and the MANN air filter is actually an improvement on the Fiat supplied part, with an internal steel mesh shield that prevents the not unheard of problem of mice entering the filter box, chewing their way through the filter element and entering or being sucked into the induction system.

Fiat boxed timing belt kits? Expensive from Fiat, although it's possible to find them somewhat cheaper elsewhere. But all the parts are made by Dayco, and you can buy the exact same parts in Dayco boxes much cheaper from a reputable source. I regard that as important, as the car spares market is now awash with forged pattern parts from the Far East and elsewhere. I don't know if it's still the same, but a few years ago Gates were the most counterfeited timing belt kits on the market.

So I never buy the most expensive options. But neither do I buy the cheapest. I look to the middle ground, buy from reputable sources and do my own research.
That's true. In my opinion, MAN filters are of much better quality. In cheaper filters, it is enough to check the metal element of the oil filter, near the thread. You can often find metal shavings after production.
 
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