Technical Noisy gearbox questions...

[AndyPanda4x4]

Ok so it's about the only part of the car that I have not tackled as yet so I need some answers for these problems please guys...

So Monica Panda is now running perfectly after setting up the carb and timing but the gearbox is soooo noisy, and 3rd along with 5th can't be found.

I understand that this is likely to be the linkage, so warn out bushes I guess?

The main of the question is that; if the linkage is so warn would it cause the noise from the gearbox, ie. If the gears are not quite meshing correctly with the drive?

The box has new oil in but it honestly sounds like you are driving a rally car with a crash box in. Under load the noise is loud, but with it in gear and no load it goes silent and sounds as it should.

What do people think about this? Especially the gearbox gurus firstcar-Y10 and andyholli

If someone could point me in the direction of the correct linkage bushes also, I would be most grateful.

Ta muchly

 

[kolza]

If someone could point me in the direction of the correct linkage bushes also, I would be most grateful.

Ta muchly

Try Fiat first for the ball joint type one, silly money -like £0.60 each.


When in Neutral does the cluch in and out make any difference?

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Try Fiat first for the ball joint type one, silly money -like £0.60 each.


When in Neutral does the cluch in and out make any difference?

Thanks Jacob, and no it's not the thrust bearing - I've already replaced that along with the clutch. This noise is a lot louder than even the worst thrust bearing noise, it sounds like you are driving an old wagon or something like that, not so much of a whine - just mechanical noise I can't find another way to describe it!

 

[kolza]

I was more suspecting the input shaft bearings, as the shaft stops with clutch in. In neutral - noise, under load more noiser.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Right sounds a possibility to me mate, when you are stationary there is no noise whether the clutch is in or out. It's just when driving and it gets louder the faster you go, and the more you go up through the gears it gets louder still. But leaving it in gear whilst driving and letting off the throttle the noise will stop.

 

[Bartpanda]

Andy, did you replace the flange for cast iron one? if so did you check the play between flange and one of the main diferential bearings? fiat uses various round shims/rings to adjust the tension on the bearings and adjust the position of the main gear. When I had broken alloy flange and the bearing was not secured/positioned{ because 2 of 4 flange bolts were missing} the box sounded like a howling jar of bolts. But when swapped to cast fiat-127 type flange I noticed that there is a need to change the thickness of the shim for thicker one{ collected from other boxes I have} because there was some play on the main bearings= heavy noise.

 

[panda1408]

Right sounds a possibility to me mate, when you are stationary there is no noise whether the clutch is in or out. It's just when driving and it gets louder the faster you go, and the more you go up through the gears it gets louder still. But leaving it in gear whilst driving and letting off the throttle the noise will stop.

It's on the output side of the box then, if it were the input shaft you would have the noise when stationary at idle. I would say the gear selection issues are going to be inside the box too, the linkage bushes would need to be very worn to stop you getting the gears, plus you would have trouble with all gears if that were the case.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Thanks Bart but this car has not had modified suspension, the flange has not been tampered with and remains intact

Thanks all for your help so far as well.

Freddy all the gears that can be found are very hard to engage (it jumps out before you can get it engaged properly in 4th. 3rd and 5th won't engage at all) the stick is very stiff to move around in general, there seems to be no set area for each gear when looking for them, which is my reasoning for the bushes - but the noise I have no clue on, and whether it is all linked to one problem.

 

[Bartpanda]

I had problems with 1,3,5th gear when I damaged the rods under the car, they were bent towards the floor= they were shorter and I was unable to fully engage the gears that require the" "to the back" movement of the rod under the car{ you push the stick to the front for 1,3,5 but the rod under the floor goes to the back then}, check the rods and the whole mechanism for correct geometry.

 

[andyholli]

I'll echo what bartpanda says - if the box is put down on a flat surface while out, then it can bend the vertical linkeage rod that runs up the back. (Ask me how I know.)
Swap with another for checking quickly.
If it's inside then the symptoms described suggest one knackered bearing, annoyingly, cause it's a box strip to fix.
I can do it for you, obviously.

 

[Freebo]

AndyPanda4x4 sounds like it could be a gearbox tinkering day next weekend then

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Thanks all for your advice.

It sounds to me like the long and short of it is that the box will have to come out then, and the linkage will need updating for best results.

I can see my time to get my car ready for the off-road weekend slipping away here!

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Hi Andy,

I had trouble with getting gears when the linkage bushes were gone as well so defo worth replacing them with something new. It wasn't all gears either; some were still ok. Anyway I've replaced them with metal ball joints now and so far so good. Gear changes are still precise even after all the abuse the car has had over the last few years! Bit lame about the noise though...does sound like you're going to need to take the gearbox apart to find out for sure unless you can see anything obvious through the CV hole. Not a tripod joint failing or something? If the car seems to twitch a bit could be that or the diff internals. Just some alternative ideas but sounds like the others have the better idea of where to look.

 

[Dragon Man]

i could bring a gearbox up.. but its a gamble if it works or not.. its my "spare" (unknown if it works) gearbox.. i still dont know how Fallouts box is. the car has still never been tested in all the time i have had it.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Cheers guys much appreciated for the other options.

Thanks John but I am in the same boat, I have Buff's box to put in which I've never had running - an ideal time to test it out!!

 

[pandamaniac]

I see a competition coming between Dragonman and Andy Panda 4x4 to see who can change a 4x4 gearbox the quickest?
Dave

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

I see a competition coming between Dragonman and Andy Panda 4x4 to see who can change a 4x4 gearbox the quickest?
Dave

I'll surrender from the start Dave, these things can't be rushed

 

[Dragon Man]

the hardest thing is to get the replacement box lined up. rest is just undoing bolts and redoing them back up.

 

[totnesmonster]

If its speed related my money would be on the diff bearings, I found one chewed up on my gearbox (you can possibly see it in the attached pic..). They're quite big taper roller bearings (about 90 mm O/D), I guess they might still be available from Fiat but probably at a price!

Input bearings are quite common too but if I remember right they are easy to change without taking the gearbox to pieces and a pretty cheap standard bearing (though buy good quality SKF or NSK bearings!).

If you can get one the old blue Haynes manual is pretty useful for gearboxes, for some reason they took all the detail out of the later green one...

 

[kolza]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/639068-Cuscinetto-SKF-per-FIAT-127-Uno-Panda-A-112-65-x-95-x-17-/271779342673?hash=item3f474fa951

£31 + postage from Italy, aparently pretty common in small fiats including Cinq, Seic, panda , uno Y10

I recon fiat OE should not cost more then £55, still avaialble in Poland for just over £43 ex. postage

Before you will get inside the box, check the clearance at the front diff with feeler gauge as only the shims might need to be changed.