Tuning More Power

[walloon]

Hello All, I purchased a 1971 500f about a month ago. Has been mostly restored and sat so all tires need replacing and some little things window adjustments, etc. Engine and trans. seem good. I love the car.It sits next to another Italian. I want to increase the Horse Power to Abarth levels. I have ordered disc brakes and am now looking at engine builders. I have watched many great D'Angelo videos featuring the engines he builds. His website is impressive. I have communicated with builders in the U.S. and U.K. None seem to provide what he does.
A couple people on the Ferrari Forum here in the U.S. have purchased engines from him with satisfaction. Does anyone have any experience with him? Also, I am interested in his 40 or 50 hp engines, particularly the 50. Is 50 too big for daily drives? I am not going to race or rally it . Street use only. Any experience with a 50 hp engine?

 

[the hobbler]

Hello All, I purchased a 1971 500f about a month ago. Has been mostly restored and sat so all tires need replacing and some little things window adjustments, etc. Engine and trans. seem good. I love the car.It sits next to another Italian. I want to increase the Horse Power to Abarth levels. I have ordered disc brakes and am now looking at engine builders. I have watched many great D'Angelo videos featuring the engines he builds. His website is impressive. I have communicated with builders in the U.S. and U.K. None seem to provide what he does.
A couple people on the Ferrari Forum here in the U.S. have purchased engines from him with satisfaction. Does anyone have any experience with him? Also, I am interested in his 40 or 50 hp engines, particularly the 50. Is 50 too big for daily drives? I am not going to race or rally it . Street use only. Any experience with a 50 hp engine?

I have purchased quite a number of parts from D'angelo---never had a problem. In answer to your question as to whether 50 bhp is too much for road use, I would say this. The Fiat 500 transmission system was never designed for what is effectively 2-1/2 times their normal power output---you have to up-rate just about everything, including drive-shaft couplings (to full-metal universal joints)---it starts becoming very expensive when you live outside Italy. I drive around Chester, over here in the UK, with just about 32bhp, and it is not me that is holding up the traffic! The most Abarth ever produced (for road use) from the Fiat 500 derivatives (the 695SS) was about 36bhp. Having helped an American friend over here in London with the engine that he bought from a well known company in Atlanta, before he knew that his wife (still in the USAF) was going to be stationed over here for about 2-1/2 to 3 years, all I can say is do NOT buy an engine from that company---basically, it was a load of crap! The cylinder head that they had put on that engine was NEVER available in the USA, and my friend was never able to properly sort out the carb that they put on it. Eventually, I designed and made an inlet manifold for him to fit a Dellorto FZD carb on it---it now runs correctly! D'angelo would be a much better option. Another thing that is also to be considered is 'back-up'. You have VERY few people in America (and those you have are well spread around) who can help you with these engines should you have a problem, so keep it simple, especially as you are only going to use the the car for "the street". D'angelo can supply 32bhp and 40bhp engines---for general running around I would say that the 32bhp engine would be sufficient, with the 40bhp engine the highest power that you want to go to. You don't buy a 500 to go fast (although even the 32bhp engine will propel you a lot quicker than the standard engine), you buy it for the smile it puts on your face. Think carefully before you buy the 'big' engine----the Warranty office is a long way away!

 

[walloon]

I have purchased quite a number of parts from D'angelo---never had a problem. In answer to your question as to whether 50 bhp is too much for road use, I would say this. The Fiat 500 transmission system was never designed for what is effectively 2-1/2 times their normal power output---you have to up-rate just about everything, including drive-shaft couplings (to full-metal universal joints)---it starts becoming very expensive when you live outside Italy. I drive around Chester, over here in the UK, with just about 32bhp, and it is not me that is holding up the traffic! The most Abarth ever produced (for road use) from the Fiat 500 derivatives (the 695SS) was about 36bhp. Having helped an American friend over here in London with the engine that he bought from a well known company in Atlanta, before he knew that his wife (still in the USAF) was going to be stationed over here for about 2-1/2 to 3 years, all I can say is do NOT buy an engine from that company---basically, it was a load of crap! The cylinder head that they had put on that engine was NEVER available in the USA, and my friend was never able to properly sort out the carb that they put on it. Eventually, I designed and made an inlet manifold for him to fit a Dellorto FZD carb on it---it now runs correctly! D'angelo would be a much better option. Another thing that is also to be considered is 'back-up'. You have VERY few people in America (and those you have are well spread around) who can help you with these engines should you have a problem, so keep it simple, especially as you are only going to use the the car for "the street". D'angelo can supply 32bhp and 40bhp engines---for general running around I would say that the 32bhp engine would be sufficient, with the 40bhp engine the highest power that you want to go to. You don't buy a 500 to go fast (although even the 32bhp engine will propel you a lot quicker than the standard engine), you buy it for the smile it puts on your face. Think carefully before you buy the 'big' engine----the Warranty office is a long way away!

Thank you so much for the invaluable information! You also confirmed my suspicions about the business in Atlanta.

 

[gordinir8]

I will agree 100% with Tom above, I have tune my 650 engine very recently (with Toms help among the others) and i am calculating the output at something just below 40hp, maybe 34-36hp. Plenty of power and faster at the road from many modern cars. Engine doesn't seems to suffer from overpowering while acceleration is linear. I think that anything above 35-40 hp is starting to push things. Consider the installation of an oil cooler also that will take your temp about 10C°

 

[walloon]

I will agree 100% with Tom above, I have tune my 650 engine very recently (with Toms help among the others) and i am calculating the output at something just below 40hp, maybe 34-36hp. Plenty of power and faster at the road from many modern cars. Engine doesn't seems to suffer from overpowering while acceleration is linear. I think that anything above 35-40 hp is starting to push things. Consider the installation of an oil cooler also that will take your temp about 10C°

Thank you for your advice. The oil cooler is something I hadn't considered. Although the car won't be driven for long distances my climate

I will agree 100% with Tom above, I have tune my 650 engine very recently (with Toms help among the others) and i am calculating the output at something just below 40hp, maybe 34-36hp. Plenty of power and faster at the road from many modern cars. Engine doesn't seems to suffer from overpowering while acceleration is linear. I think that anything above 35-40 hp is starting to push things. Consider the installation of an oil cooler also that will take your temp about 10C°

Thank you for your input. I am convinced now not to exceed 40 horsepower. Additionally, I had not thought about an oil cooler. Though the car won't normally be driven for more than 30 minutes at a time, our temps. here in the summer are 32 to 37C, so I will research the addition of an oil cooler. Fortunately we have a good repair shop here that works on all types of European cars.

 

[gordinir8]

If it is for 30 min rides then it is not necessary, I am going small trips during summer and here in Greece temps can be 36 and up, in the open road cooler do a good work. But at list put an aluminium oil pan, holds more oil and does some cooling also.

 

[the hobbler]

If it is for 30 min rides then it is not necessary, I am going small trips during summer and here in Greece temps can be 36 and up, in the open road cooler do a good work. But at list put an aluminium oil pan, holds more oil and does some cooling also.

Agree with Thomas---an aluminium sump (at least 3-1/2 litres) will not only hold more oil which will help keep the engine cooler, but as you're driving along the deeper sump will be in the air-flow which again, will help keep the engine cool. Keep it simple! If I remember correctly, the D'angelo engines come with an aluminium sump, so before you start 'enhancing', see how it performs first.

 

[walloon]

Agree with Thomas---an aluminium sump (at least 3-1/2 litres) will not only hold more oil which will help keep the engine cooler, but as you're driving along the deeper sump will be in the air-flow which again, will help keep the engine cool. Keep it simple! If I remember correctly, the D'angelo engines come with an aluminium sump, so before you start 'enhancing', see how it performs first.

Thanks for the advice. If there's anything that should be part of the build of course I want to address that before so this info. is important.

 

[ClassicFiat500]

Hello All, I purchased a 1971 500f about a month ago. Has been mostly restored and sat so all tires need replacing and some little things window adjustments, etc. Engine and trans. seem good. I love the car.It sits next to another Italian. I want to increase the Horse Power to Abarth levels. I have ordered disc brakes and am now looking at engine builders. I have watched many great D'Angelo videos featuring the engines he builds. His website is impressive. I have communicated with builders in the U.S. and U.K. None seem to provide what he does.
A couple people on the Ferrari Forum here in the U.S. have purchased engines from him with satisfaction. Does anyone have any experience with him? Also, I am interested in his 40 or 50 hp engines, particularly the 50. Is 50 too big for daily drives? I am not going to race or rally it . Street use only. Any experience with a 50 hp engine?

Hi I bought my car 3 years ago after owning one over 50 years ago & going though lots of classic & modern cars, I love mine the guy who had it before put virtually all the Abarth extras & upgrades possible including a Weber DCO 40 which is actually too big for a 650cc, but the one useless piece of add ons was fitting rear DISC BRAKES, totally not necessary, but worst of all the handbrake linkage does not give enough leverage to operate the handbrake, I can pull the handbrake up & then push the car on the flat & just move it, so i always leave it in gear when parked. So after all that DO NOT FIT DISCS ON THE REAR. WASTE OF TIME & MONEY. Good luck with the car & great fun.

 

[the hobbler]

Hi I bought my car 3 years ago after owning one over 50 years ago & going though lots of classic & modern cars, I love mine the guy who had it before put virtually all the Abarth extras & upgrades possible including a Weber DCO 40 which is actually too big for a 650cc, but the one useless piece of add ons was fitting rear DISC BRAKES, totally not necessary, but worst of all the handbrake linkage does not give enough leverage to operate the handbrake, I can pull the handbrake up & then push the car on the flat & just move it, so i always leave it in gear when parked. So after all that DO NOT FIT DISCS ON THE REAR. WASTE OF TIME & MONEY. Good luck with the car & great fun.

Totally agree with that sentiment---REAR discs are a total waste of time and money on a 'road use only' 500

 

[the hobbler]

Hi I bought my car 3 years ago after owning one over 50 years ago & going though lots of classic & modern cars, I love mine the guy who had it before put virtually all the Abarth extras & upgrades possible including a Weber DCO 40 which is actually too big for a 650cc, but the one useless piece of add ons was fitting rear DISC BRAKES, totally not necessary, but worst of all the handbrake linkage does not give enough leverage to operate the handbrake, I can pull the handbrake up & then push the car on the flat & just move it, so i always leave it in gear when parked. So after all that DO NOT FIT DISCS ON THE REAR. WASTE OF TIME & MONEY. Good luck with the car & great fun.

Totally agree with that sentiment---REAR discs are a total waste of time and money on a 'road use only' 500

 

[walloon]

Hi I bought my car 3 years ago after owning one over 50 years ago & going though lots of classic & modern cars, I love mine the guy who had it before put virtually all the Abarth extras & upgrades possible including a Weber DCO 40 which is actually too big for a 650cc, but the one useless piece of add ons was fitting rear DISC BRAKES, totally not necessary, but worst of all the handbrake linkage does not give enough leverage to operate the handbrake, I can pull the handbrake up & then push the car on the flat & just move it, so i always leave it in gear when parked. So after all that DO NOT FIT DISCS ON THE REAR. WASTE OF TIME & MONEY. Good luck with the car & great fun.

Thanks for the input. I have seen others note that Discs should not be put on the rear because the handbrake becomes inoperable. I know that D'Angelo puts them on their high performance cars but they custom fabricate everything.

 

[the hobbler]

Thanks for the input. I have seen others note that Discs should not be put on the rear because the handbrake becomes inoperable. I know that D'Angelo puts them on their high performance cars but they custom fabricate everything.

If you want to frighten your bank-manager, just look at the cost of putting a D'angelo rear-disc system on! Beautifully made, but "ouch"! I have discs only on the front, and even in the dry (and wide tyres), have to be careful as to how I brake hard. If I had rear discs on, they would just lock-up, especially in the wet as there would be no weight at the rear of the car due it transference forward.

 

[walloon]

If you want to frighten your bank-manager, just look at the cost of putting a D'angelo rear-disc system on! Beautifully made, but "ouch"! I have discs only on the front, and even in the dry (and wide tyres), have to be careful as to how I brake hard. If I had rear discs on, they would just lock-up, especially in the wet as there would be no weight at the rear of the car due it transference forward.

I guess with new vehicles ABS prevents lockup but when I went to driving school many years ago and then tracked my 86 911 I was taught and told that most people don't use the full power of their brakes. If you are in a spin or emergency situation I was always told to Stand On Them! Lock them up!