Technical M40 Gearbox Oil

[CraigAR]

Looking for alittle info please.

I was about to order some oil for my gearbox and looked at some helpful posts about filling via the breather under the black cap. I went and had a look but no black cap.
My Ducato is a late 2016 registered Jan 2017, its a left hooker 2.3 multijet 150bhp Manual. From reading on here I have figured out its a M40 Gearbox.

I read it needs 2.9 litres but does not state the weight or if its GL4 or GL5 as I know the GearBox with the breather needs 75w-80 GL4

I did a registration search but it comes up blank as its an import direct from Germany.

Thanks
Craig R

 

[theoneandonly]

Well i dont know what oil you need so based on 5 searches based on my 2017 130 that i found rediculously frustrating all i can offer this one "sensible" result i got

Fill volume:
Capacity 2,9 litre
Use:
Normal
Intervals:
Check 48000 km/ 24 months
Products:
Special product, please use the original product (OEM)

somebody please help this guy

 

[Communicator]

There seems to be some lack of understanding of basic oil properties in this and at least one other recent thread. The "W" in oil viscosity grades refers to the winter viscosity grade, not the weight. Modern oils are generally viscostatic meaning that there thickness does not change as much with temperature, as did that of oils in the early days of motoring when different grades where specified for summer and winter. You can still see different viscosity ranges recommended for warmer or cooler climates. So a 75W/80 oil would be the current equivalent of 75 viscosity rated oil in winter, and an 80 viscosity grade oil in summer. The viscosity ratings generally quoted are on the SAE scale. (American Society of Automotive Engineers)

To progress from that very basic explanation the GL4, and GL5 ratings refer to the level of additives in the oil. The higher level of phosphorous based additives in the GL5 specification is known to attack the bronze synchro components in gearboxes, and is more suited to rear axle differentials, particularly of the hypoid variety where the gears have a partially sliding contact under high tooth pressure.

So for a gearbox use GL4 oil of the correct viscosity.

The above is drawn from my memory which includes the results of past internet searches.

 

[CraigAR]

Thanks for the info. I know the 3 litre engine has the M40 gear box so that gives me a starting point, I was thinking about asking the local fiat dealer but they had been using 5w30 oil so can't really trust them.
And the gearbox oil that Opie oils recommends is GL5

 

[HughJampton]

Every hit I can find (including contemporaneous manuals) doesn't differentiate between the standard and M40 gearbox (which, with a 2018 150, I also have). The translated maintenance manual available in the downloads (albeit it cover up to 2014) lists the M40 against the 3 litre, and that doesn't differentiate either.

The factory fill is shown as TUTELA TRANSMISSION GEARTECH at 75w-85 (which is GL4, and a 2.9L fill) which is consistent with the manual listings.

Patently, aftermarket alternatives are available, but it is listed here specifically for the 3 Litre (if you check for the 2.3 the same product is listed).

Tutela Geartech 1Ltr 76403E18EU

www.shop4parts.co.uk

 

[HughJampton]

Missed the edit, but the following may help.

A check on the Petronas site (the OE lubricant provider) would appear to confirm the above spec/choice:

Find the Right PETRONAS Lubricant

Discover more about PETRONAS lubrificant fluids and find the right engine oil for your needs.

global.pli-petronas.com

 

[Communicator]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your reply. I too would be suspicious about a garage using 5w30 oil in a gearbox. Gear wear would be accelerated with thinner oil. If you wish to investigate further, do as I did and try an internet search "GL4 versus GL5 gearbox oil". You will get a multitude of results.

I have a memory of reading that Fiat have stopped recommending GL5. Can't remember for which box, but it may have been on the "outandaboutlive" forum. The fact that it was recommended may be why some suppliers recommend it.

 

[HughJampton]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your reply. I too would be suspicious about a garage using 5w30 oil in a gearbox.

I'd rather interpreted this as using 5W30 engine oil (rather than the specified 0W30) ;-)

 

[Communicator]

Thanks Hugh, you are probably correct.

 

[CraigAR]

Yes sorry did not make that clear it was 5w30 engine oil Fiat put in the engine. The last service just before I bought the van they added 5w40 so I drop that straight out.

I am pretty confident that the correct oil for the Gearbox is SAE 75W-85, API GL 4.

Are there any markings or stamps on the gearbox I can look for so I am 100% it is a M40 ?

Is the M40 Gearbox better or worse than the standard gearbox that is normally found on the 2.3 130bhp ?

 

[HughJampton]

From a transmission oil perspective, I wouldn't worry about whether or not you've got the M40 box (you will have), as the oil spec for the standard box is the same (the volume might differ slightly).

AIUI, whilst the power figures remained roughly similar between the Euro V and 2016- Euro VI 2.3 150, the torque figure for the latter was somewhat higher, and exceed the limit for the MLGU , requiring the use of the (more robust) M40 box (the 2.3 MLGU continued to be used at lower powers in 2016-on vehicles).

The M40 is generally considered a better and more robust box (and having had a Euro V 150 as well, it appears to be a somewhat smoother change).

 

[CraigAR]

Thanks Hugh I would not class my gear changes as smooth thats why I am thinking of changing out the oil, but its only covered 60000 miles but it could also be me not being used to a left hand drive manual and using my right hand to change gear with. But for the cost of fresh oil its worth it. Just need to find the fill and drain plugs. I know there is a graphic on the group showing it. Thanks for your help Hugh

 

[Philblack]

Thanks Hugh I would not class my gear changes as smooth thats why I am thinking of changing out the oil, but its only covered 60000 miles but it could also be me not being used to a left hand drive manual and using my right hand to change gear with. But for the cost of fresh oil its worth it. Just need to find the fill and drain plugs. I know there is a graphic on the group showing it. Thanks for your help Hugh

If it's definitely the M40 then drain point is lowest point on the gearbox diff housing, hex socket, it has a magnet attached inside. The fill point uses the same hex bolt/socket but without a magnet. It is located at the front of the gearbox about two thirds of the way up and is best undone from below, it is located just above the reverse gear sensor and I found it easier to unplug the connector from this sensor first to improve access. Filling, I use a long tube and funnel from above. 2.9L of GL4 75W85 or nearest equivalent. Hope this helps

 

[CraigAR]

If it's definitely the M40 then drain point is lowest point on the gearbox diff housing, hex socket, it has a magnet attached inside. The fill point uses the same hex bolt/socket but without a magnet. It is located at the front of the gearbox about two thirds of the way up and is best undone from below, it is located just above the reverse gear sensor and I found it easier to unplug the connector from this sensor first to improve access. Filling, I use a long tube and funnel from above. 2.9L of GL4 75W85 or nearest equivalent. Hope this helps

Thanks Philblack. Can you check the oil level via the Fill plug as you normally can on a Gearbox ?

 

[HughJampton]

Given that pictures are often worth a lot of words, the following (specific to the M40 as originally implemented in the earlier 3-litre versions, but unlikely to have changed much) may help:

The first (though with fairly indistinct pictures) is from the translated maintenance manual available in the download section,

The second is from the Ducato Training Manual (Second Phase) which is an addendum for the 3-litre engine, and that particular second one I can't find in the downloads (I'll do a re-check, and if necessary get it uploaded).

HTH

Edited to add: The "Fiat Ducato Training Manual" entry on downloads has two downloads, this is in the second of those.

 

[Philblack]

Thanks Philblack. Can you check the oil level via the Fill plug as you normally can on a Gearbox ?

Pretty sure not, I think the fill hole is well above the oil level. Just get gearbox warm before draining and then refill a measured 2.9L

 

[Seanwinder22]

Sorry to comment on a old thread but rather then make one I’ve been reading other threads for information
I have a 2010 fiat ducato maxi 160 multijet 3.0 comfortmatic
Just doing all oil changes and a service
Clutch fluid
Transmission etc
I’m now on the gear box dropping the oil
Others show this plastic cap for the breather
I don’t think my box has this ?
From what I’m reading it’s got the oil drain plug lower diff
the magnetic plug on diff cover
The oil filler plug on the gearbox case
So no plastic breather like most have I’m guessing but the 8mm Alan