I'm considering changing my 2006(56) 1.8 Eleganza LPG converted (30000mls only) for a 2.4 JTD - Anyone fancy making me an offer on the 1.8 and has anyone seen a low mileage 2.4 for sale anywhere I figure I'd be getting more or less just as good a car as the 159 for about a quarter of the price
General Hunting down a 2.4
- Thread starter YELLIG
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General Hunting down a 2.4
FiatFleetFamily
Established member
Bear in mind the Alfa 159 BUILD QUALITY is far superior. The first Alfa in many many years to be on par with a German prestige car.
25% of the price maybe. But if it were me I would choose a 159 over a Croma, Would have to be the Ti Estate though. Gorgeous Wheels
Aren't you better off with LPG?
To have a diesel nowadays you need to regularly drive a fairly long journey, otherwise it doesn't get hot enough to burn the soot off from the particulate filter. You also need to drive like an idiot now and then too. Ours is going to be checked over next week, but I think it's clogging up.
See here...
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html
I think the new emissions laws may have ruined diesel engines, at least until someone comes up with a more elegant way of getting rid of the soot.
It could be something else wrong with the engine though, but it's definitely extra-noisy.
To have a diesel nowadays you need to regularly drive a fairly long journey, otherwise it doesn't get hot enough to burn the soot off from the particulate filter. You also need to drive like an idiot now and then too. Ours is going to be checked over next week, but I think it's clogging up.
See here...
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html
I think the new emissions laws may have ruined diesel engines, at least until someone comes up with a more elegant way of getting rid of the soot.
It could be something else wrong with the engine though, but it's definitely extra-noisy.
there is a 2.4 on autotrader at the moment!
DoIDon'tI
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Don't do it, I've got one...unless you need the driving position then get the 159. Points already raised by others are all valid. The Croma is blighted by the Vectra chassis whereas the 159 is not. The extra weight of the 2.4 means the suspension, tyres and brakes wear quicker, the extra torque means the (Fiat/Alfa) driveshaft inner joints wear quicker (mine are now juddering after 45K), the extra cylinder means the steering lock is poor and makes cambelt changes v difficult (eLearn says take the engine out - I hope I don't have to next year when its due).
Fuel economy is also disappointing, the rear suspension is inadequate for towing a heavy caravan and the gear ratios are less than ideal for towing.
If this sounds like I'm disillusioned with the Croma then I've got the message across. I was hoping for something more reliable than my last car (a VW Sharan VR6) but it's not looking promising.
Trouble is, there's nothing else on the market that has the combination of enough headroom for me, a high seating position for my wife and a diesel engine with automatic gearbox capable of towing 1400KG. So - I'm stuck with the Croma and will have to fix whatever breaks until such time as a viable alternative exists and is affordable
Before all the 'Fiat is the best car maker in the world and anyone who thinks otherwise is a Fascist lunatic who must be burnt at the stake' people get on my case (or T109232864 or whoever he is tells me to get another car if I'm not happy - yeah, thanks for the advice and support mate);
I've had 22 years of driving experience and owned in the region of 50 cars of various makes. I'm an aircraft engineer (mechanical) by trade and know how to fix things when they go wrong. I like Fiats. I like the concept of the Croma.
I just feel somewhat let down by the build quality and the cynical cost-cutting that allows someone in design to use the same driveshaft joint as the Alfa 147 when the Croma weighs so much more and has 400NM of torque. Or allow the continued use of a water pump which fails regularly and takes the cambelt out. Or fit suspension springs that are blatantly sub-standard and catastrophically rip the front tyre when they break. Or allow cars to leave the factory with the rear wheels pointing in different directions.
And we accept these things, and whatever else randomly fails, for whatever reason (in my case because I have no alternative) but I'd rather let other people know what they're getting into before they spend their money.
Rant over
Fuel economy is also disappointing, the rear suspension is inadequate for towing a heavy caravan and the gear ratios are less than ideal for towing.
If this sounds like I'm disillusioned with the Croma then I've got the message across. I was hoping for something more reliable than my last car (a VW Sharan VR6) but it's not looking promising.
Trouble is, there's nothing else on the market that has the combination of enough headroom for me, a high seating position for my wife and a diesel engine with automatic gearbox capable of towing 1400KG. So - I'm stuck with the Croma and will have to fix whatever breaks until such time as a viable alternative exists and is affordable
Before all the 'Fiat is the best car maker in the world and anyone who thinks otherwise is a Fascist lunatic who must be burnt at the stake' people get on my case (or T109232864 or whoever he is tells me to get another car if I'm not happy - yeah, thanks for the advice and support mate);
I've had 22 years of driving experience and owned in the region of 50 cars of various makes. I'm an aircraft engineer (mechanical) by trade and know how to fix things when they go wrong. I like Fiats. I like the concept of the Croma.
I just feel somewhat let down by the build quality and the cynical cost-cutting that allows someone in design to use the same driveshaft joint as the Alfa 147 when the Croma weighs so much more and has 400NM of torque. Or allow the continued use of a water pump which fails regularly and takes the cambelt out. Or fit suspension springs that are blatantly sub-standard and catastrophically rip the front tyre when they break. Or allow cars to leave the factory with the rear wheels pointing in different directions.
And we accept these things, and whatever else randomly fails, for whatever reason (in my case because I have no alternative) but I'd rather let other people know what they're getting into before they spend their money.
Rant over
DoIDon'tI
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Just had a look at the pics - judging from the camber on the LH rear wheel I'd budget £80 for a 4-wheel alignment in the price...the rest of the car looks nice (in the pics) but the price seems a little optimistic?
Thanks for the feedback, I know the 159 is probably the better choice but so it should be for the extra it will cost, I know all about the particulate problem my other car is a 2008 Galaxy which I have to take to London every couple of months to clear it out !! I keep hearing these horror stories about cromas but mine hasn't missed a beat in 30k and the interior and panel fits are every bit as good as my Galaxy which is 25k new and I like driving a car which is rare and Italian (bits of it anyway) I also drive a Delta Integrale so I'm a complete lost cause for the german offerings !!!!!
I also have a 2.2 Galaxy and it's difficult to clear the filter even on the motorway, because of the ridiculous high gearing (40mph per 1000 in sixth) you have to keep it in 4th, when I queried this with the supplying Ford dealer he said "you should have bought the petrol" pity he didn't say it at the time. Why are Ford & Fiat dealers such rubbish
159 for all that it is a better car and looks better, it doesn't have the internal space of the Croma.
FiatFleetFamily
Established member
Totally Agree, Had one while my 156 SW has had a belt change. But their is hella alot more room than the 156 SW. 159 IS a lot wider and is so refined with the 210 Bhp 2.4 motor.
The extra weight of the 2.4 means the suspension, tyres and brakes wear quicker, the extra torque means the (Fiat/Alfa) driveshaft inner joints wear quicker (mine are now juddering after 45K), the extra cylinder means the steering lock is poor and makes cambelt changes v difficult (eLearn says take the engine out - I hope I don't have to next year when its due).
Thats what I thought in a 156, but their is a very sneaky trick, this applied to the 156, 159 and the Croma. Just had my 4 Year full belt change done at a Alfa/Fiat independent and the trick is.
Remove the OSF Wheel. Remove upper suspension. Remove inner plastic wheel guard. Remove under tray. Jack under car. Remove upper engine mount..engine drops on on side, this gives full access to Aux and Cam belts..I know it sounds a bit short, but thats really it.
An Alfa Dealer does the same process. I was stunned that this job took 5 hours to do. That includes the water pump replacement. See www.alfaowner.com for more info on 1.9 16v AND 2.4 20v water pump sticky threads, its scary what people forget to do.
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