General He He Hesitating Acceleration

[umanemo]

Hummm...


Yesterday... (If you are waiting for a Beatles song, all I got is "all my troubles seemed so far away...") yes, yesterday everything was hunky-dory. Running smooth as silk, no issues, no suspicious activity. But today Epiphany morning it was 0 degrees, I started to climb the N7 from Nafpilo to Tripoli, Greece and I felt it, a drop out in acceleration like I was about to run out of fuel. It was just a single "Bump" but I know every bump of this 2000 Ducato 2.8lt. v.230 as I have had a 275,000Km relationship with her since she was born. Caution being my best friend I turned back and headed off on a safer route, just in case.


About 30Km later I was climbing a fair incline when the "Bump" reappeared as a hesitation and I marked it this time at just over 2000 rpm. I also noticed this day the oomph was missing in general as I passed the magic number of rev's where the turbo could be normally noticeable. Being the idiot I am, I decided to push it past 2000 rpm just to see if I could "Blow out" the problem, as you do.


Well what happened was the engine hesitated in and out of acceleration, hesitating for greater periods as the rev's climbed up and around 3000 rpm it was 50/50, half acceleration and half as if I was running out of fuel.


I put a full can of Wurth's Diesel Treatment/Injector Cleaner in with 70 Lt. of fuel in the tank and took off again. No reasonable change throughout the next 100K's.


Anyone got a wild guess as to what's next? I will change the fuel filter tomorrow, but I am suspicious of the fuel? the cold maybe gluing up the diesel? Frozen condensation in the filter? Bad diesel period? but please, please don't tell me it is the turbo! I don't want to deal with that right now. (I'm thinking - a turbo works, or it doesn't, that's all the choices - so why the hesitation if it's the turbo.)


Maybe one last possibility, I have had experience with once upon a time on a Volvo it was is the intake air sensor, is this possible on my Ducato?


Any experiences with anything similar is welcome discussion and may bring me closer to correcting this sad state of performance for such a reliable motor!


PS. When keeping the acceleration under 2000 rpm there is no noticeable hesitation. On climbing, as I lose rev's and because I can not go up over 2000 rpm, I just lose speed and eventually end up in 1st gear and climbing at 15 Kph! And one last insert, she's generally not idling as usual - just seems sickly, rough and indecisive.

 

[Cosworth101]

Hi I had the same problem as you have on a 2009 2.3 and after replacing nearly everything under the bonnet a mechanic friend suggested taking the ecu out and sending it away for testing. The ecu was found to be faulty and repaired so now my motorhome runs sweetly again with only 22,000 miles on the clock
Hope this helps
John

 

[umanemo]

Thanks for the input Cos! Anything at this stage is worthy of investigation.


As it's the FIAT Ducato: Yr. 2000, 2.8Lt, 4 cyl. Turbo-Diesel, Td-I, v. 230 - (8140.43) 109Kw; I am not sure that I even have a Electronic Control Unit? I once had immobilizer troubles and was referred then to my ECU and I believe that I was told I didn't have one? Dunno for sure. All I do know is that it is not Common Rail.


Any takers on that?


As an update; I have drained the fuel water separator (filter?)(Is that the only fuel filter on my engine?) and the half cup or so of drainage looked a bit dark but not separating into a lava lamp exactly, didn't really see any diesel/water stratification at all. I used a clear cup for sampling the lot.


I got all the air bled out and gave her a good step on the accelerator and as I passed 2000 RPM... no hesitation? I held 3K RPM's for about 3 minutes and felt only a few micro drop-outs at the onset, then smooth running after that for the next two minutes! I'm stumped.


Taking her out for a run down the coast tomorrow and will see if the ghost has left the engine. But, I am not too confident that the issue will not show up again when under stress and/or when climbing.


We'll see, but keep all those suggestions coming in please, I just may need more info from someone who has had these same symptoms. Even if it has gone away I want to know why this happened in any case just for my own peace of mind.


Thanks in advance.

 

[ecunotemu]

Do you mean 109ps? That engine is 8140.47R. Don't think theres a 109kw.

Immobiliser is a pretty common problem on those, stop solenoid patially opening or failing to open entirely. Yours will be protected by an armour plate on the end of the pump which makes it a pig to bypass.

I'm guessing its an ancient bosch msa11 ecu does it have a wire coming out of one of the injectors?

 

[umanemo]

It's Back! Ugh!

It's back!!! I went all the way to Former Soviet Georgia with out a sputter even climbed 25% grade for 30 minutes to reach Nemrut Dagi but yesterday on a uphill climb out of the Mosel after a wine fest weekend... It's back! Couldn't press it over 2700 RPM! without that drop-out "hesitation". Obviously a diesel starved condition but is it likely to be a venturi issue, injector clog or maybe the turbo. Any guesses where to start ripping into? Help!

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

It does have an ECU, and it should be read first.
So see a dealer and have the ECU read for stored faults before anymore wild guesses...

 

[umanemo]

Yes, It's Back!

Thanks Peter for your reply. I am full time "On the Road" so WiFi is often spotty plus I have had a visitor over the weekend, so I apologize for the delayed response.


I was fully convinced that I had no ECU. The motor is a Yr. 2000 JTD? 2.8 Lt., Turbo. It's what I believed to be the engine design just before the evolution to the "Common Rail". When I had trouble with the immobilizer several years ago I asked here on this forum for advice and the general consensus was that I had no ECU. Is that possible, I really wouldn't know and would play the American card here because we have so few Diesel's I really wouldn't have grown up with that life experience like you all have. So I ignorantly went on with my bliss once the dealer had hacked my immobilizer off the fuel pump and hot wired the solenoid. (Don't tell Allianz)


So yes the starved condition has returned but the RPM constant has changed, it's variable now, in fact the "drop out" of fuel condition is beginning to appear at any rate of rev's - unpredictably and erratically, plus the idle is now down to a point that the needle is lying on the pin - I.E. about 500 RPM. It's at a level that doesn't support the A/C and also is incapable of supporting enough rev's to keep the alternator happy too.


That's where I am at now after I thought the whole thing was just a bad fuel anomaly.


Help?

 

[illepo]

Try the following, I had a similar problem.

To check, unplug your mass airflow sensor and then drive your van. If the problem goes away then you mass airflow sensor is dirty/faulty.

to fix, take out your air filter and hose, then attached to the bottom of you air filter is the Mass airflow sensor. take that off and use surgical spirit to clean the inside wires.

If that fails then get a new airflow sensor, you should be able to get a new part with just the wires and not have to replace the whole housing.