Technical Gearbox wonderings...

[blu73]

So as some may have read, been plotting my next car. I don't want to reveal all as of yet but lets just say i'm gonna try stick as close to what i know as possible, that being cento's. End of the day, they aren't that different.

Now I am sure this info is on here already and i have had a read of quite a few threads but as what i'm looking for is specific i shall just ask as my eyes hurt now lol.

So basically what i want to know is, being that most (if not all?) pandas have FIRE engine of sorts you can clearly bolt on a cento gearbox (or a whole cento engine and box for that matter). Assuming i had a panda with some FIRE engine and a cento 5 speed bolted to it, would the panda driveshafts fit still or alternatively would the cento driveshafts fit the panda hubs??

To put it another way, i'm sure there is a combo of parts that will allow me to fit a cento 5speed box and everything still bolt up together without any custom parts but what is that combo....?

Most threads i have read of people dropping other engines in, like a mk1 punto 16v for example, they have kept the panda box but this (no offence) just will not do.

 

[kolza]

What is your Panda gearbox like?i
Rod driven (carbed) or cable driven ( injected)?
As far as I know if you got rod driven gear mechanism all the gear box internals would need to swapped into old case, the cable type one should dropp streight into engine bay.. DragonMan or Snatch panda owner are the best soureces of gb knowledge.

 

[firstcar-Y10]

Out of interest, what's the advantage of a 'cento 5 speed over a Panda 5 speed? Or have you just got a 4 speed car lined up?

 

[onemanmade]

So as some may have read, been plotting my next car. I don't want to reveal all as of yet but lets just say i'm gonna try stick as close to what i know as possible, that being cento's. End of the day, they aren't that different.

Now I am sure this info is on here already and i have had a read of quite a few threads but as what i'm looking for is specific i shall just ask as my eyes hurt now lol.

So basically what i want to know is, being that most (if not all?) pandas have FIRE engine of sorts you can clearly bolt on a cento gearbox (or a whole cento engine and box for that matter). Assuming i had a panda with some FIRE engine and a cento 5 speed bolted to it, would the panda driveshafts fit still or alternatively would the cento driveshafts fit the panda hubs??

To put it another way, i'm sure there is a combo of parts that will allow me to fit a cento 5speed box and everything still bolt up together without any custom parts but what is that combo....?

Most threads i have read of people dropping other engines in, like a mk1 punto 16v for example, they have kept the panda box but this (no offence) just will not do.

Is there a difference between the cento and the panda 5 speed box?

 

[purple haze]

Eh??... Why a cento box?? Panda ones are not weak...unless you fit a V8 to one.

 

[blu73]

forgive my ignorance.. I only been in 4 speed panda's :shrug: And I don't have a panda yet, i'm merely plotting the project in my head atm.

I would say i think all panda's i have looked at in any detail have been carbed ones. So later panda that are injection will have 5 speed? And from what i have read the injected ones also have servo'd brakes whereas carbed ones (bar 4x4) don't. Correct?

Would i also be right in thinking such a panda, (injected and servo'd) is gonna be post'92? I would like to be able to legally run without a CAT. But i suppose if i'm running a panda without them things it will all just bolt in and also means i can bolt in the 5 speed box from a 5speed panda (and maybe cento as they are no doubt easier to get hold).

I am now curious though as to the differences (if any) between a 5speed panda and a cento one.. I presume the panda box is a C514 box? I wonder if the diff is the same, Mmmmmmm.

 

[Giacosa]

I could get a couple of things wrong here but all Mk2 4x4s and injected Selectas got Servoes. Only the very last 2wd injected Pandas 94-95 got them as well I think. 5 speed box was available on the Mk2 1000cc from launch in 86. The carbed 1000s had a 5 speed by default. My carbed 91 Panda has or had a 5 speed. I think the 4 speed box was pretty much dropped by 91? even on the 750 i think.

 

[purple haze]

5 speed boxes for pandas have been around since the MK1... My 1990 carb, non servo, no cat panda has one. Later inj cars tended to have 5 speed.

As was mentioned there are two ways they operate from the cabin. Carb cars via rods under the car.... Inj cars via cable inside the car.

 

[Palio]

forgive my ignorance.. I only been in 4 speed panda's :shrug: And I don't have a panda yet, i'm merely plotting the project in my head atm.

I would say i think all panda's i have looked at in any detail have been carbed ones. So later panda that are injection will have 5 speed? And from what i have read the injected ones also have servo'd brakes whereas carbed ones (bar 4x4) don't. Correct?

Would i also be right in thinking such a panda, (injected and servo'd) is gonna be post'92? I would like to be able to legally run without a CAT. But i suppose if i'm running a panda without them things it will all just bolt in and also means i can bolt in the 5 speed box from a 5speed panda (and maybe cento as they are no doubt easier to get hold).

I am now curious though as to the differences (if any) between a 5speed panda and a cento one.. I presume the panda box is a C514 box? I wonder if the diff is the same, Mmmmmmm.

Don't assume you can't take the CAT off legally if you're putting in a different engine. There's a bit of a grey area for the first of the CAT'd ones IMO. Despite what everyone tells you is gospel, I have had my MOT tester agree that Panto will be acceptable without it per the flow charts in the tester's manual - Vern has checked with his guy using my view & he agrees. The theory is somewhere in Panto's thread (project Panda looking Panda) I think, or I can find it for you in the testers manual.

As has been said, 5 speeds have been around a long time - my mk1 VIP has one, as does the mk2 Super (no servo though), and the Sisley (inc servo).

Confused yet? Welcome to the Panda! Just buy a few and you'll get all the different options!! :idea:

 

[blu73]

to be honest, it will not stop me taking it off - my 16v cinq has a hollowed CAT so it appears to have one but it doesn't.

 

[blu73]

And i tell you what - and i bet you lot don't hear this often - proper looking forward to the extra space in the bay on a panda lol

 

[Palio]

And i tell you what - and i bet you lot don't hear this often - proper looking forward to the extra space in the bay on a panda lol

You do when I've just skinned all my knuckles doing something on a 127!

 

[blu73]

 

[Didge3]

With Panda's its quite awkward to determine what came in where... I'm sure its similar with Cento's
Echoing what's above,
Inj + Servo Panda's seem to start in 1993.
Most Panda's except special editions and 4x4's were 4spd until about '92.
All 750 Mania models (my very own Charmanda) have a 5spd box

Answering above about changing to another box from a Cento would involve you having to change from a rod change to cable change, I feel like I was once told its just some sort of plate you could swap on the box itself but that may be complete garbage....

The only reason I could think you'd want a Cento box is if you had a 4spd Panda and couldn't source a 5spd Panda box or you wanted rid of that 3rd gear syncromush, which isn't really a problem once you get used to making a cup of tea between changes.


oh and also....
Some have clocks, some don't.

 

[blu73]

Answering above about changing to another box from a Cento would involve you having to change from a rod change to cable change, I feel like I was once told its just some sort of plate you could swap on the box itself but that may be complete garbage....

Well this was where this question first came from, cento boxes are (when still working as they should) silky smooth and clutch super light but still with plenty of 'feel'.
If they are C514 based boxes which i presume they are... Converting to cables should just be a matter of swapping the selector mechanism on the top - and of course running cables, which hopefully cento ones would be long enough.

Sounds like this should all be doable but i really should have a go in a panda 5 speed before i rush into converting stuff i suppose.

 

[onemanmade]

Well this was where this question first came from, cento boxes are (when still working as they should) silky smooth and clutch super light but still with plenty of 'feel'.
If they are C514 based boxes which i presume they are... Converting to cables should just be a matter of swapping the selector mechanism on the top - and of course running cables, which hopefully cento ones would be long enough.

Sounds like this should all be doable but i really should have a go in a panda 5 speed before i rush into converting stuff i suppose.

A good panda 5 speed will be as smooth, cant be certain about the clutch as I will require a new clutch cable soon.

 

[nitro_warrior]

And i tell you what - and i bet you lot don't hear this often - proper looking forward to the extra space in the bay on a panda lol

Try changing the spark plugs on the rear cylinder bank of a v6 chrysler voyager Ahhhh :dead: The Panda bay is positively cavernous.

 

[Didge3]

Sounds like this should all be doable but i really should have a go in a panda 5 speed before i rush into converting stuff i suppose.

Well if we happen to be at the same meet this year you'd be welcome to have a go in Char', although being a 750 the 5th isn't as much a cruising gear as a 5spd in a 1000 Panda but it'll give you a feel for the box.
I've not driven a Cento really so couldn't give you a comparison, the only thing I note when going from modern(ish) cars to Char' is her clutch is much heavier although I assume Cinq's are also quite heavy?

 

[blu73]

cinq clutches are only heavy when the clutch is about to let go... otherwise super light

 

[blu73]

Try changing the spark plugs on the rear cylinder bank of a v6 chrysler voyager Ahhhh :dead: The Panda bay is positively cavernous.

tbh, so is a cento one - until you drop a 16v engine in or in the case of my sei, a turbo and all the associated gubbins.