General Fiat panda 4x4 Antarctica just a bit of aftermath..... after 1 year.

[kavinsanders87]

Dear All,

I would like to share my experience with the fiat panda 4x4 312PXL1A.

Issue list I had :

1) I had the car delivered to my home by the 2 hand dealer, just noticed that the gear stick was not getting back to center (manual neutral) after moving it left or right
Solution : car fixed in warranty (3 month warranty). gear selector rod cleaned and maybe greased by the garage? I know for sure that they took it out.

2) one of the bolts of the engine protection snapped, right side, fixed by a garage with a cable tie.

3) Propsharf bearing gone, at fiat they are genius, they made a not serviceable propsharf...... if you beak the central bearing , "sayonara"
cost from fiat dealers (item and fitting 2500 vat incl £..... i spent a day looking for alternative, i found a propsharf shop in uk , got the propsharf ordered by my local garage 700 vat incl £ (item + fitting)

4) water falling on the foot rest after turning right at roundabout. I just checked in the forum and found the solution (water drains clogged, did tjhe fixing myself......

5) now point 1 problem again, I read there is a solution in this forum about the gear selector rod being cooreded and gear stick stiff, but it is long and now wheater is not good, I do not have a covered parking spot..... nightmare again, I think my local garage could charge me up to 100 pounds for that job. but If the rod get corroded and stuck every year, it is a 100 pound pain in the neck.

6) Got the mot in october, (I knew where the stuts attachments are , they are under the plastic wipers cover i removed to fix the issue at point 4 water in the foot rest, I do not know what they where thinking in FIAT when they designed it, the fiat panda 169 has the strut attachments inside the bonnet, covered and safe from water and rust., in the 312 version they are constantly in contact with rain water, especially in uk. LONG STORY SHORT if you have an mot with 312 fiat panda 2012+ the garage mechanics should check the strut attacments (part of mot checking)...... when you get the car back, check that they put the plastic cover back correctly..... after 20-30 days from the mot I just stopped to check leaves and small wood from trees in the wipers harms , I noticed that the plastic cover was not attached completely to the glass in the right side, making a half inch (more than 5 mm) gap, allowing leaves and dirt to go traing inside. I had to remove all wipers harms again and plastic cover to clean the mess.

7) when aI bought the car after 3 months, I noticed that the front of the car was significantly lower that the back, I check in this forum, some people fixed this issue replacing the springs with aftermarket one. I am planning to do this job next year, I just spent money in mot + service and disk and pad replacement in the front. and more money for other things.

8) I replaced the air con filter (pollen filter). the filter is not specular, they kept on the right in the uk version. long story short, to remove the 2 bolts you have to keep the cluch pressed and , in addtion to the non sense, there is the steering pole just attached to the plastic cover, making more difficult to remove.
I did not say what I had to do, but I want shopping in halfords and other very tecnical shops, nobody blo...dy had the 5/32 wrench....... just ebay........ I had to adapt another wrench to to the job.

9) I know , now , why fiat has a bad reputation in uk

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Dear All,

I would like to share my experience with the fiat panda 4x4 312PXL1A.

Issue list I had :

1) I had the car delivered to my home by the 2 hand dealer, just noticed that the gear stick was not getting back to center (manual neutral) after moving it left or right
Solution : car fixed in warranty (3 month warranty). gear selector rod cleaned and maybe greased by the garage? I know for sure that they took it out.

2) one of the bolts of the engine protection snapped, right side, fixed by a garage with a cable tie.

3) Propsharf bearing gone, at fiat they are genius, they made a not serviceable propsharf...... if you beak the central bearing , "sayonara"
cost from fiat dealers (item and fitting 2500 vat incl £..... i spent a day looking for alternative, i found a propsharf shop in uk , got the propsharf ordered by my local garage 700 vat incl £ (item + fitting)

4) water falling on the foot rest after turning right at roundabout. I just checked in the forum and found the solution (water drains clogged, did tjhe fixing myself......

5) now point 1 problem again, I read there is a solution in this forum about the gear selector rod being cooreded and gear stick stiff, but it is long and now wheater is not good, I do not have a covered parking spot..... nightmare again, I think my local garage could charge me up to 100 pounds for that job. but If the rod get corroded and stuck every year, it is a 100 pound pain in the neck.

6) Got the mot in october, (I knew where the stuts attachments are , they are under the plastic wipers cover i removed to fix the issue at point 4 water in the foot rest, I do not know what they where thinking in FIAT when they designed it, the fiat panda 169 has the strut attachments inside the bonnet, covered and safe from water and rust., in the 312 version they are constantly in contact with rain water, especially in uk. LONG STORY SHORT if you have an mot with 312 fiat panda 2012+ the garage mechanics should check the strut attacments (part of mot checking)...... when you get the car back, check that they put the plastic cover back correctly..... after 20-30 days from the mot I just stopped to check leaves and small wood from trees in the wipers harms , I noticed that the plastic cover was not attached completely to the glass in the right side, making a half inch (more than 5 mm) gap, allowing leaves and dirt to go traing inside. I had to remove all wipers harms again and plastic cover to clean the mess.

7) when aI bought the car after 3 months, I noticed that the front of the car was significantly lower that the back, I check in this forum, some people fixed this issue replacing the springs with aftermarket one. I am planning to do this job next year, I just spent money in mot + service and disk and pad replacement in the front. and more money for other things.

8) I replaced the air con filter (pollen filter). the filter is not specular, they kept on the right in the uk version. long story short, to remove the 2 bolts you have to keep the cluch pressed and , in addtion to the non sense, there is the steering pole just attached to the plastic cover, making more difficult to remove.
I did not say what I had to do, but I want shopping in halfords and other very tecnical shops, nobody blo...dy had the 5/32 wrench....... just ebay........ I had to adapt another wrench to to the job.

9) I know , now , why fiat has a bad reputation in uk

The issue with the gear change should not reoccur that soon if it is cured properly. I did mine standing up outside on a rainy day. It takes no more than an hour and is an easy job to do. Still working fine 23 months later. See here: https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/cure-for-a-stiff-gearlever-multijet-4x4.841/

The propshaft bearing can be removed and replaced - there is a post on here (https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/panda-4x4-propshaft-bearing.495473/post-4646834) where this was done for £150. But since a complete new propshaft is around £260 and and hour's labour to fit, that's an alternative option (so shouldn't cost more that £360-400 depending on where you go)

The part of the suspension strut that fails the MOT is the 'top mount' but that is not where you describe. You cannot see the top mount - it is up inside the wheel arch on top of the spring. It is large black rubber/plastic unit containing a bearing (see here https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=15742) but is removed via the nut you describe inside the panel below the windscreen (as well as other bolts near the brake disc)

It sounds like your front springs had been replaced with those for a non-4x4 Panda (the 4x4 uses noticeably longer springs). This is well covered in another post on here (https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/panda-2013-4x4-front-coil-springs.498960/) , and suggests it was not done at a garage that 'understands' the differences between a normal Panda and the 4x4.

The pollen filter is removed using a 5.5mm socket and spanner. Again, well described and easy to do. See here: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/changing-the-pollen-filter-my-easy-way.481366/

I think you have been unlucky in using workshops that are not best suited to the car?

 

[boozyjay]

How old is the Panda and how many miles had it done?

 

[lambou1d]

I agree with Herts Hillhopper, seems like you have been unlucky but not that unlucky as all those things you describe are wear/maintenance items anyway.

I had that gear stick issue, which my local garage "fixed" for £10 - think they just sprayed WD40 on it. Now I know how to do it (from the forum guide), that is now a 24 month maintenance job (re-greasing). Best learn how to do that yourself, it's really quite straightforward and once you've done it, you just need to keep it greased. Unavoidable because of the part's design.

I just replaced a front spring, shock, drop link and top bearing (all from shop4parts) £185ish and got my local garage to do it since I couldn't get the nut off the top of the shock tower (corroded and rounded off!) They charged me £60/hr and it took them an hour!! Seems like you need to find another garage.

The thing with a Panda 4x4 is that it is (was) a cheap 4x4 made to a budget. Similar jobs on any other 4x4 would be much more money, not to mention the purchase price and depreciation. Even if you pay £70K for a Range Rover doesn't mean it won't let you down and probably will. I'd have a cheaply made Fiat anytime!

Happy Pandering!!

 

[kavinsanders87]

The issue with the gear change should not reoccur that soon if it is cured properly. I did mine standing up outside on a rainy day. It takes no more than an hour and is an easy job to do. Still working fine 23 months later. See here: https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/cure-for-a-stiff-gearlever-multijet-4x4.841/

The propshaft bearing can be removed and replaced - there is a post on here (https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/panda-4x4-propshaft-bearing.495473/post-4646834) where this was done for £150. But since a complete new propshaft is around £260 and and hour's labour to fit, that's an alternative option (so shouldn't cost more that £360-400 depending on where you go)

The part of the suspension strut that fails the MOT is the 'top mount' but that is not where you describe. You cannot see the top mount - it is up inside the wheel arch on top of the spring. It is large black rubber/plastic unit containing a bearing (see here https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=15742) but is removed via the nut you describe inside the panel below the windscreen (as well as other bolts near the brake disc)

It sounds like your front springs had been replaced with those for a non-4x4 Panda (the 4x4 uses noticeably longer springs). This is well covered in another post on here (https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/panda-2013-4x4-front-coil-springs.498960/) , and suggests it was not done at a garage that 'understands' the differences between a normal Panda and the 4x4.

The pollen filter is removed using a 5.5mm socket and spanner. Again, well described and easy to do. See here: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/changing-the-pollen-filter-my-easy-way.481366/

I think you have been unlucky in using workshops that are not best suited to the car?

Thanks for the reply.

I think that the springs are original. When I check for the proper oem code online all give me the x2 white x2 yellow color code which are the springs I have mounted in my car.

I have all the correct codes to buy new springs and suspension from shop4parts. I will change averithing next year,

How old is the Panda and how many miles had it done?

When I bought it 77k

 

[boozyjay]

Did it have a full service history when you purchased it?

 

[kavinsanders87]

The issue with the gear change should not reoccur that soon if it is cured properly. I did mine standing up outside on a rainy day. It takes no more than an hour and is an easy job to do. Still working fine 23 months later. See here: https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/cure-for-a-stiff-gearlever-multijet-4x4.841/

The propshaft bearing can be removed and replaced - there is a post on here (https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/panda-4x4-propshaft-bearing.495473/post-4646834) where this was done for £150. But since a complete new propshaft is around £260 and and hour's labour to fit, that's an alternative option (so shouldn't cost more that £360-400 depending on where you go)

The part of the suspension strut that fails the MOT is the 'top mount' but that is not where you describe. You cannot see the top mount - it is up inside the wheel arch on top of the spring. It is large black rubber/plastic unit containing a bearing (see here https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=15742) but is removed via the nut you describe inside the panel below the windscreen (as well as other bolts near the brake disc)

It sounds like your front springs had been replaced with those for a non-4x4 Panda (the 4x4 uses noticeably longer springs). This is well covered in another post on here (https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/panda-2013-4x4-front-coil-springs.498960/) , and suggests it was not done at a garage that 'understands' the differences between a normal Panda and the 4x4.

The pollen filter is removed using a 5.5mm socket and spanner. Again, well described and easy to do. See here: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/changing-the-pollen-filter-my-easy-way.481366/

I think you have been unlucky in using workshops that are not best suited to the car?

Thanks for the reply.

I think that the springs are original. When I check for the proper oem code online all give me the x2 white x2 yellow color code which are the springs I have mounted in my car.

I have all the correct codes to buy new springs and suspension from shop4parts. I will change averithing next year,

How old is the Panda and how many miles had it done?

When I bought it 77k

I agree with Herts Hillhopper, seems like you have been unlucky but not that unlucky as all those things you describe are wear/maintenance items anyway.

I had that gear stick issue, which my local garage "fixed" for £10 - think they just sprayed WD40 on it. Now I know how to do it (from the forum guide), that is now a 24 month maintenance job (re-greasing). Best learn how to do that yourself, it's really quite straightforward and once you've done it, you just need to keep it greased. Unavoidable because of the part's design.

I just replaced a front spring, shock, drop link and top bearing (all from shop4parts) £185ish and got my local garage to do it since I couldn't get the nut off the top of the shock tower (corroded and rounded off!) They charged me £60/hr and it took them an hour!! Seems like you need to find another garage.

The thing with a Panda 4x4 is that it is (was) a cheap 4x4 made to a budget. Similar jobs on any other 4x4 would be much more money, not to mention the purchase price and depreciation. Even if you pay £70K for a Range Rover doesn't mean it won't let you down and probably will. I'd have a cheaply made Fiat anytime!

Happy Pandering!!

Thank you for all the suggestion. Surprisingly this is the only forum where I can get info. I tried to get in italian forums but I did not find detailed thing. So thank you for that.

I will Try to clean the gear selector myself tomorrow it is not raining too much.


Another thing,

Do you know if it is possible to manually adjust the front light height?

And what is the test to check the lights height?

I remember I have to put the car in a flat surface and pointing to a wall and check the beam height, right?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Another thing,

Do you know if it is possible to manually adjust the front light height?

And what is the test to check the lights height?

I remember I have to put the car in a flat surface and pointing to a wall and check the beam height, right?

It’s easy to do this - again I wrote a post which I’ll try to find.

But, if the car is too low at the front, that will be why the lights are too low…

Edit: after using the forum search ( I searched for ‘headlight aim’ in ‘this forum only’ — ie the Panda one) :
Post in thread 'Headlight adjustment, help please...'
https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/headlight-adjustment-help-please.483118/post-4558279 Also see the reply immediately under the one this link goes to as it has extra info.

 

[kavinsanders87]

It’s easy to do this - again I wrote a post which I’ll try to find.

But, if the car is too low at the front, that will be why the lights are too low…

Edit: after using the forum search ( I searched for ‘headlight aim’ in ‘this forum only’ — ie the Panda one) :
Post in thread 'Headlight adjustment, help please...'
https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/headlight-adjustment-help-please.483118/post-4558279 Also see the reply immediately under the one this link goes to as it has extra info.

thanks,
yes that the issue, if I put the highest settings , it is still too low.

thanks again, you are the panda wikipedia.

 

[lambou1d]

Seems at around 70k miles a few things need doing on the Pandas. I bought my 4x4 at about 50k, now its at 75K I've done: brake discs all round, wishbones (did replace with aftermarket ones but they only lasted 6 months before the ball joints failed so then replaced with genuine fiat), front shocks and one spring which broke, the gear lever thing, I had to bead blast and paint the wheels because of corrosion, same for the rear axle and cross member thingy. Still it's less than I've had to do to my Land Rover 90 in that time.

 

[kavinsanders87]

It’s easy to do this - again I wrote a post which I’ll try to find.

But, if the car is too low at the front, that will be why the lights are too low…

Edit: after using the forum search ( I searched for ‘headlight aim’ in ‘this forum only’ — ie the Panda one) :
Post in thread 'Headlight adjustment, help please...'
https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/headlight-adjustment-help-please.483118/post-4558279 Also see the reply immediately under the one this link goes to as it has extra info.

I did the stiff gear stick job.

I did not find the silicon grease I used the spray silicone . I bought the metal sponges and sanding paper from halfords. To remove the corroded layer, which was at the bottom.

I firt scrub it with the sponges and send it with 800 and 1200 sanding paper.

Only thing different from your model is that I had no plastic cover to protect the mechanism

Please see rhe picture.

Now the gear stick is more than free it is excellent.

A lot more free that the time I fixed in warranty.

I hope this will last at least 2 years like other people said.


Thanks a lot for the tips.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I might have to give this a bash then!

 

[kavinsanders87]

I did the stiff gear stick job.

I did not find the silicon grease I used the spray silicone . I bought the metal sponges and sanding paper from halfords. To remove the corroded layer, which was at the bottom.

I firt scrub it with the sponges and send it with 800 and 1200 sanding paper.

Only thing different from your model is that I had no plastic cover to protect the mechanism

Please see rhe picture.

Now the gear stick is more than free it is excellent.

A lot more free that the time I fixed in warranty.

I hope this will last at least 2 years like other people said.


Thanks a lot for the tips.

UPDATE :
I noticed one thing with my car, the gear stick is very free now when I start the car, when the heat spread and the rog get hot it dilate a bit so the gear stick became a little less free.

I did send the rod but I did not use a degreaser first, next time I will put a little more pressure on the areas that I SIGNED in the attached picture .

I cleaned and sand all, but put effort especilly at the end where the plastic washer goes, the 2 end are the most important since the center is not attached to the metal.

Please see the areas highlighted

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

UPDATE :
I noticed one thing with my car, the gear stick is very free now when I start the car, when the heat spread and the rog get hot it dilate a bit so the gear stick became a little less free.

I did send the rod but I did not use a degreaser first, next time I will put a little more pressure on the areas that I SIGNED in the attached picture .

I cleaned and sand all, but put effort especilly at the end where the plastic washer goes, the 2 end are the most important since the center is not attached to the metal.

Please see the areas highlighted

Also I guess there’s dirt in the hole that rod goes into. If the car is driven through muddy/sandy floodwater it will easily get into that mechanism.

People have asked “what’s the wading depth” for the 4x4. Most think about the air filter intake, but several things lower than that don’t like getting too wet. The gearbox (which will be hot) will suck in water through its breather. Same with the PTU on diesel versions, as well as the alternator etc. Four wheel drive (any make) doesn’t mean any more waterproof (unless a lot of work is done to extend breather tubes etc)

 

[kavinsanders87]

Also I guess there’s dirt in the hole that rod goes into. If the car is driven through muddy/sandy floodwater it will easily get into that mechanism.

People have asked “what’s the wading depth” for the 4x4. Most think about the air filter intake, but several things lower than that don’t like getting too wet. The gearbox (which will be hot) will suck in water through its breather. Same with the PTU on diesel versions, as well as the alternator etc. Four wheel drive (any make) doesn’t mean any more waterproof (unless a lot of work is done to extend breather tubes etc)

I think that it is very unlikely there is much big dirt there, the rod adhere completely to the inner side and there is a metal washer in the nut side. ]

the "hole" is just a pivot . much of corrosion is in the center because of it.

Next time I will clean the pivot completely and re place all the old grease with new silicon grease.

Trying to sand more where the plastic ring goes.